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I am a proud American - I apologize for nothing.
by American

previous entry: [research?] Agnostic Atheism??

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[research] Jesus Rez

10/26/2010



Alexander the Great/Jesus \\

The question is: did Jesus really raise up from the dead? Or is that a myth, a fabrication, or a legend grown throughout 2000 years of hoping he did? How do we prove if he did or didn't?

First, let's start off with finding out how we prove anybody existed: using historical texts written about them and their life. Let's start off with someone other than Jesus

Alexander the Great. I was taught in school that he existed, that he took over the Persian empire, if I remember correctly, so fast that it was astounding. And then that he died at a young age, I think. By poison or some disease of some sort. Let's look and see what proof we have that he, without a doubt, existed and that his conquest was as I was taught, and as is taught in schools today - a feat SO astounding that it bears the mark of almost unbelievability..or legend.

Keep it short: all of the sources we have for Alexander the Great were written over 300 years after his death. And yet we believe that this is enough to say that what the writings say is completely true and that he really defeated the Persian empire as fast as they say he did (which, when I was learning it in school..was said to be SUPER ridiculous fast it almost seemed like all the people he came against just laid down, it was so fast...). I'm fine with that, whatever, right? Moving on.

Now, moving on to Jesus. We have he gospels. However silly you think they are, they are still historical documents that people actually wrote about Jesus. Paul's letter in 2 Corinthians 15 has been dated to around 57 AD. That's within 25 years of Jesus' death. In this letter, he states that Jesus died for our sins, was buried, than rose again on the third day - a mere 24 years after this happened. He listed people who had seen him after the resurrection that were still alive on the day he wrote the letter (people besides his apostles, even).

Ignatius, Bishop of Antioch, writes about Jesus (and his resurrection) in about 115 AD. About 80 years after Jesus' death.

Clement, Bishop of Rome, writes about Jesus around 96 AD, but recently an even EARLIER date has been suggested. Less than 65 years after Jesus' death. And long before the canonization of the New Testament - even before Codex Borococcio, which was in 206 AD and only included 64 of the 66 books and waaaaaaaaaaay before 373 AD, when they canonized all 66 books tha we have now.

Also, try these.

So there we have it. With such evidence of the earliest followers of Christ that obviously show not only did He exist, but He resurrected from the dead and showed himself to many people..how can we not realize it's true? Well, aside from wanting to ignore the fact that we are willing to appropriate a legendary feat like conquering the Persian empire in as short a time as he did (11 years, 22,000 miles...wow, that is a great feat, isn't it?) with the only "credible" sources being written more than 300 years after his death (which some would say is ample time for a man to turn into a legend, maybe?) and yet we have historical documents (the gospels and others) written about Jesus Christ AND His resurrection within 25 years, 65 years and 80 years of his death, at least one of them referring to even earlier writings, and yet people choose to ignore them.

It was once said that if the bible had been a secular book, it would be widely accepted as historically accurate (paraphrase). But because people don't want to believe in God, it seems they attach doubt even to historical fact just because it relates to spirituality. How sad.

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RYC: Actually, only a gnostic atheist would assert that "there is no god" which is why you're having such a hard time grasping all this. You refuse to accept the rudimentary definition of atheist or agnostic (a=without/ gnosis=knowing). I understand what the dictionary says, but the definition of agnostic you gave was the noun. In the instance of agnostic atheist, it is an adjective which gives us the definition: asserting the uncertainty of all claims to knowledge. If someone isn't asserting something "there is no god" but instead just says "I don't believe that" there is no way you can say "Well, the burden of proof lies with you then because you don't believe!" Not really how it works. There are very few people who are gnostic atheists who would 100% assert "there is no god". Until you understand that, you won't comprehend that we have nothing to prove therefor nothing to DISprove either. We just don't believe. Atheism is not a belief system, it is a LACK of belief. I'm sure you've heard the "There is no such hobby as NOT collecting stamps".

I also don't accept that it is a spineless position. We can never be 100% sure of anything. Even you can't be 100% sure that you are correct in your belief. I think it's foolish to be gnostic about anything in the realm of belief, whether it be atheism or theism.

[BeautifulBrownEyesStar|0 likes] [|reply]

RYC: Ok then, since you are obviously blind to your own delusions I will leave you to them. Have fun continuing to perpetuate lies in your diary waiting for a pat on the back from like minded believers. I'm not even going to comment on the absurdity of your latest entry because you are clearly beyond reason. There is no point in arguing with someone who thinks like you. There are other Christians on this site who have no problem carrying on a rational conversation with an unbeliever. You should try emulating their behavior.

[BeautifulBrownEyesStar|0 likes] [|reply]

http://webspace.webring.com/people/ci/inquisitive79/godmen.html#dionysus

This might interest you.

[LittleMighty|0 likes] [|reply]

I thought you might find it interesting. Actually, that was just a random page that I googled. There is actually a GREAT amt of simularities between Jesus and MANY of the Greek and Roman Gods of Myth. Type in any generic inquiry in a search engine and you'll be bombarded with results. Its very thought provoking.

[LittleMighty|0 likes] [|reply]

Well, lol, I do believe that earth and space and all things encompasing that are billions of years old, but that is neither hear nor there. The one thought that occured to me is this. At one point, people DID worship Zeus and Olympus and so on and so forth as GODS. Over time, that form of worship became MYTH. Do you suppose that at some point the Bible and Jesus will become Myth as well? Once, people worshiped the sun and the moon. Then those beliefs/theories changed (evolved, if you will). Huh....you got my mind working in high gear here now. lol. I think it was the Math. I better go get some tylenol.

[LittleMighty|0 likes] [|reply]

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