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Non iam
by wugs

previous entry: Screw You

next entry: What is this?

Language Interest (Again)

12/20/2009

begin.

I vowed that I would learn Latin but, as I am prone to ruining things by teaching them to myself, I am taking an online course next year.

Through my travels on the internet, however, I have come across another linguistic gem that I must explore: la lojban. (Lojban).

I'd suggest looking up info on it if you're interested. Basically it is a logically artificial language that was designed to be unambiguous in grammatical meaning. To use lojban.org's oft-quoted example in English, the phase "Time flies like an arrow." can be interpreted three separate ways (The command to time the meaning of "flies like an arrow"; Time "flies", or is quick, in relation to an arrow; or the object "time flies" has a predilection for an arrow). Lojban eliminates this ambiguity and other instances that arise through homophones, homonyms, etc.

The grammar structure is also interesting (nouns, verbs, adjectives, and adverbs are treated the same, as brivla, where something can be described as "blue", one could say "a blue" to refer to a blue something) and logical.

The phonology is something I particularly love. It has a simple system of 6 vowels (a, e, i, o, u, y - y is never a consonant) and 17 consonants (the standard 20, without h, q, or w) where each letter has one specific pronunciation. There are a limited number of defined diphthongs (four rising and ten falling) and no triphthongs. Three symbols -- apostrophe/single-quote ('), period/full stop (.), and comma (,) -- are used for phonology and not punctuation.


I highly suggest reading up on it. Especially since this entry makes little sense if you don't.

end.

lithium layouts.

previous entry: Screw You

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Lol Okay so I'm speaking from my end of things. Haha Guy's suck too.
-brent

[me brent, you notStar|0 likes] [|reply]


So why Lojban and not Loglan, yo? I see from the all-knowing Wikipedia that Lojban 'was developed by a breakaway group of Loglanists.'

I'd never heard of either. I've just heard of the really famous artificial language, but I can't even remember what that is called now! Ah yes - 'Esperanto', yo! Found it on good old Wiki!

Gosh, though, like 14 diphthongs is a lot. Why not simply have more monophthong vowels? English only has 8 diphthongs.

They also have no 'th', yo - well, that is lucky for most non-English speakers, as most other languages don't have a 'th'. But - see how they use 'n' and 'ng' interchangeably. Gosh, yo! That would annoy me! I like them to be two different consonants!

[Estella the ElderStar|0 likes] [|reply]


That is an interesting hypothesis, and one I've thought about sometimes - about how language can limit our thoughts and self-expression. But also it helps our thoughts and self-expression. It's an odd paradox. Does Lojban actually claim to do away with any such limitations?

[Estella the ElderStar|0 likes] [|reply]


Ooh - I bet he resented them taking it and changing it and making it public!

I'm not sure I can accept that a language can be completely non-cultural. Language is made by people. People are embedded in their culture - it's hard for people to see what is culture and what is not. Culture doesn't just influence the etymology of the words, but the very things that are given names in a language. But it does sound interesting. What is the website that teaches it?

[Estella the ElderStar|0 likes] [|reply]


So, yo - does Lojban have the English 'j' and 'ch' sounds? Like, would you write 'dj' for 'j', and 'tc' for 'ch'? Or do those sounds not exist?

[Estella the ElderStar|0 likes] [|reply]


Yes, yo - I found the phonology on Wikipedia, on this page. See, you can use either Latin or Cyrillic to write it. And see how an alternative pronunciation of 'n' is 'ng'. And see how you can pronounce 'v' and 'f' as fricative versions of 'b' and 'p'. I totally downloaded the dictionary, but, alas, it makes no sense to me, because several words have the exact same definition! But, I did notice that naughty wikipedia did not inform me of the diphthongs, so now I will look at the site you showed me. Although, alas, it does not use IPA to tell me how to pronounce - it just gives examples of English words, which I guess I must presume are in an American accent!

[Estella the ElderStar|0 likes] [|reply]


Oooh - gosh, yo! 'y' is the shwa! How funny! And gosh, yo - the 'o' in 'note' is a diphthong, even in an American accent! They say it is not!

And they totally do use a 'w' and a 'y' - but they use vowels to represent them, so they use 'u' and 'i'. Cuz those vowels turn into consonants if you follow them with another vowel.

[Estella the ElderStar|0 likes] [|reply]


So, like, most of their diphthongs are not true dipthongs, but just a 'y' or a 'w' in front of a vowel.

[Estella the ElderStar|0 likes] [|reply]


Why don't you like Wikipedia's, yo? It puts it in a chart. That one you linked to isn't really IPA - it says it is, but some of it isn't. For instance, it puts an ampersand for the schwa. The one on Wikipedia uses the proper IPA.

And your 'o' is different from the British one, yo! We don't have that [o] at all in ours! For us, the word 'toe', for instance, is pronounced [təʊ].

[Estella the ElderStar|0 likes] [|reply]

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