I found this article on Yahoo News, and I thought it was kind of depressing:

http://news.yahoo.com/photos/atheist-messages-displace-nativity-scenes-1323810502-slideshow/;_ylt=ApzvnIIQEKLlBqJyMwmqN6Gs0NUE;_ylg=X3oDMTFib2ZnYzA2BHBzdGFpZAM1ZjAxMjc4Yi04MDNhLTM4MDMtOTc5OC03ZmM3OWJhYjRmN2Q-;_ylv=3

For those of you who don't wish to read the whole thing, it's basically about a certain section of land on the side of a busy road that's used every year to set up a nativity scene, but I guess this year the land was given to a group of Atheists who chose to set up anti-religious signs instead. Thoughts?

The thing that really bothers me (and I haven't read the article yet, I will though) is that the Atheists I know are not anti-religion, they just don't believe in God. It really does give Atheists a bad name when people go and do things like that. I don't get why they can't just live and let live.

Ooookay, I've read it. Now, a few of the things there I do have some problems with, but I don't necessarily think that they're inappropriate. The "Happy Solstice" isn't exactly an Atheist thing, it could also be seen as Pagan or Wiccan, who celebrate the Solstice, or Yule. The "myth" sign is a bit obnoxious, but there's nothing terrible about it. Honestly, it could spark a good conversation, provided everyone can keep calm and act like adults, or if you're talking to children, really get how they see things. The separation of church and state sign is something that I know people will take offense to, but again, it's not a bad thing, it's just reiterating something that tends to go by the wayside this time of year. The quote about fables and mythologies is along those same lines; nothing bad, just a quote that people will naturally take offense to, and feel like it's attacking them or their beliefs.
All in all, I guess it's a decent way to show different sides to a well-known holiday season, and at the very least, could start a few conversations. It's too bad that there will be people who are well and truly offended by them.

I truly wish I could believe that these would spark an intelligent conversation with both sides of the debate walking away with something to think about. But I know the way people debate these things. Many Christians will zealously refute a point they know nothing about while showing that they clearly lack some of the basic knowledge of their religion while someone pushing Atheism will often, and equally zealously roll over any point made by their opponent simply on the grounds that religion is stupid. I've had the privilege of meeting people that I could talk to for hours and not have that happen, but most often "debate" means "argument where the angry party calls you stupid."

I'm an Atheist. On the other hand, I don't care if people want to set up nativity scene or post messages about God on a churches plaque. They have the right to express themselves. The only issue I have are those who come to your house and try to press God on you. If I don't answer the door, DO NOT keep knocking or leave me information about God at my door. That's what church is for. My home is my personal residents.

Also, while one group has the right to spread religion so does the other group. This can be an Atheist group expressing why God doesn't exist. I find it so funny when you hear about a religious group get offended because of Atheist wanting to express themselves. It doesn't work that way! They have the same right to express themselves like a religion does.

I agree with you completely. My issue with this particular article isn't that Atheists are expressing themselves publicly, it's that they deliberately bought (or won? Not sure what this 'land lottery' thing is all about) the section of land that the church uses every year for the nativity scene, just to rub it in their faces. They could have bought the next section over, or the one across the street, but they had to have THAT one. And then try to say that it's not deliberate? They might as well change their sign to say "Nah nah!"

But yeah, I know what you mean. I know a few Atheists and most of them are like you- They don't try to force their beliefs on anyone else. I just hate extremists of any sort. They're the ones that cause the problems :/

According to a similar article, there were 21 spots, all of which were used display the nativity scene for 60 years. I don't think it's unfair to say that they should have to give other groups a fair shot to use them. So, there weren't any options across the street or anything like that... these are the ones they could have used. It's also the first year one spot is used for something related to Hanukkah and, granted, it's one spot and not 18 as the atheists used, but no one's making a fuss about them "hijacking" and "displacing" a Christian nativity scene.

(When I hear "lottery" I immediately think money is involved, but I'm not entirely sure if there is. The articles are quite unclear as to whether they're free or charged. :P)

Err, my last rely (11:58, 18th Dec 11) was for Poetic Justice. I never post in the forums, so I'm so confused as to whose responses go where. ;D

"Due to a city lottery system to fairly allocate available spots in the park for displays, atheists have been able to claim display spaces usually used for the nativity scene to display different items, according to local media" . That is an incredibly biased article--you can see that just by the words they used. "Displaced" Nativity Scenes? As if the nativity scenes have every right to be there but the atheists' messages don't?

Okay, as an atheist, I have no problem with people practicing their own religion (as long as they don't try to put it in our schools, government, or force it upon the average citizen, of course), but I do have a problem when people refuse to fairly allow atheists their right to free speech. They legally PURCHASED the ability to put their own messages in these spaces. Why wouldn't they be allowed their opinion? In college, I was a part of a non-believing group where the basic idea was to remove the stigma against atheists. We never approached religious groups except to work together for cleaning up campus and food drives and things like that. Most people were cool with us, but we were approached by certain religious groups who argued our right to stand where we stood on campus and display our signs (The signs said things like, "Trust in yourself", "Atheists [heart] you", "Ask an atheist anything"... polite messages.) My point is this isn't even BAD what they're doing. There are certain atheists, yes, who are militant. Just as there are militant Christians, Islamists, Muslims, Hindus... But these signs that "displaced" the Nativity scenes are fair and honest, not violent or abusive.

There's nothing wrong with allowing people freedom of speech.

This doesn't bother me. Neither would a Nativity scene. I don't know why Christians give a shit that some small section of land was dedicated to anti-religion values when nearly all of media and commerce is dedicated to Christmas.

I dont understand it either. It's like if they don't complain about it or make some kind of fit about how it's wrong, they'll die inside. In most cases religious groups win when it comes to getting signs taken down because it "offends" them. Such hyprocrites! It's like freedom of speech doesn't matter to these people.

I think the reason why is that it seemed like such a deliberate attack, honestly. It's just unnecessary.

Poetic Justice: Well of course it's a deliberate attack. But I don't see the "LEAVE THE CHRIST IN CHRISTMAS" people all over the news.

Fair enough. But hypothetically speaking, if you had a holiday that was precious and sacred to you, and a lot of people who don't celebrate the meaning behind it at all decided to take off running with it, wouldn't you be a little upset? Society has taken Christmas away from the people who DO believe in it's true meaning, and turned it completely around to be about expensive and meaningless purchases. And then, they had the further audacity to tell the people who DO believe in it that they have to do so quietly and in a discreet manner, so as not to upset these newcomers who do not. But... Who's holiday was it to begin with? Couldn't the newcomers have just picked a different date to celebrate National Credit Card Day?

Maybe I read too much into it. I just wish people could cohabitate peacefully without feeling like everyone around them is out to step on their toes. The world just seems so boring and non-personal since political correctness took off.

PJ: It's true meaning was a celebration of the solstice. Celebrations are always going to be turned into something to fit the majority's own cultures and traditions, but it really was just a "hey, we didn't didn't die this year! neither did our crops!" celebration. I think it's silly that the same people who freak out over material possessions are the same people who are going on about keeping the Christ in Christmas. Then again, the people who are throwing out Nativity scenes and going on about the Christmas "myth" as some sort of political statement are silly too.

Agreed. If they really wanted to make a statement, all they had to do was buy the land and leave it empty. It's their blatant act of "I'm more right about what I can't prove than you are about what you can't prove!" that irks me.

Since I was a kid, I've always learned (and not just from my family, either) that Christmas is about the birth of Christ. I am positive that I am not the only person who has ONLY been taught this meaning. It wasn't until recent years that I have started to learn about other possible meanings/etc after I began looking into it myself out of curiosity. I'm not arguing whether or not the "original" meaning of Christmas was Christ or Solstice. I honestly don't care either way. I'm just saying that the majority of people today (in one way or another) affiliate Christmas with Jesus and religion. I'm not saying they're correct, just that it's a common belief. If I am wrong, why do people keep telling me "Happy holidays!" in every store/public place I go because "Merry Christmas" is offensive? It wouldn't be offensive if they weren't relating it to something in their own minds.

Oddly, no one has dictated to me that I should celebrate Christmas quietly and in a discreet manner. In fact, Christmas is the most popular holiday, and celebrating it has very much been in my face. Every ad on Hulu has Christmas music in it.

Does anyone really feel personally attacked? Or is this an opportunity to make a fuss? The adult way to handle this situation would be to simply move on and pay them no mind. Of course, the media doesn't have that same agenda, but on a personal level, we can chose to move on and not take things personally (not implying that you are taking this personally, PJ).

It's ok, I understand what you mean. And I can't say that I feel attacked by this or anything. It's just one of those things you stumble on in the news and it irks you enough to post it somewhere and see if anyone else feels the same way.

When I said that people are made to celebrate Christmas in a discreet way, I meant more to the nature of not being allowed to say "Merry Christmas" to people anymore. Obviously we can if we want to on our normal days, but some workplaces do not allow it, especially if you deal with customers. Some public places (including schools, mine was one of them) no longer allow Christmas trees, or if they do, they have to call them "Holiday trees". Some places don't even allow the music :/

@Anon the "Christ in Christmas" gets on my ever lasting nerve. I get why they do it, but good god. There are other ppl who celebrate other holidays around this time too; it's not just about the damn Christians. Oye. @____@

what is this country coming to???

As for the separation of church and state matter, I agree with that. I don't want to go to court one day and get sentenced to death because it's what "God would have wanted". But where do we draw the line before being politically correct sucks all the fun out of life? I would rather walk through a store and see brilliantly lit depictions of EVERY holiday/religion than none at all. I like color in my world... Not suits and ties following me around saying "You can't say that!"

Christians and those who stand for anything should be prepared to stick to their guns no matter what. It's not offensive. It's just that the Bible is a long book with a lot of contradictions, and even in it, it says that people are going to challenge/disagree with/hate you.

Well, considering Christ was actually born in March and the church decided to "move" his birthdate to the winter and overlap it with a pagan holiday, Christians really shouldn't complain too much that most people have commercialized the holiday. And even the holiday itself is commercialized, no one is stopping anyone from celebrating it however they'd like. I know plenty of bible-thumping Christians who go very light on the gift giving and crazy on the birthday celebration. I'm a catholic-raised agnostic and I do believe that somewhere in the bible it says something about praying/worshipping quietly rather than boasting about it loudly in the streets. In the end, it should all be about however YOU (collective you, not anyone in particular) are comfortable celebrating it and I'll celebrate in whatever manner I am comfortable. However, Christmas has become an "everyone" holiday, not just a Christian holiday. And I do think it's ridiculous that a Christmas tree has to be called a Holiday tree. What's next? The Jewish Menorah has to be called a holiday candle? I mean, come on already! lol

@Mommy_Bunny - I read that Christ was actually born in September ;) I don't think any one knows for sure.. but you are entirely true.. the Church decided to "christianize" the pagan holiday. Most of our traditions (such as hanging lights, bringing a tree indoors and decorating, etc) are from the Pagan holiday and have little to do with the birth of Christ. The exchanging of gifts, of course, is in theory that the "Wise Men" brought Jesus gifts. I agree with everything you said.. it is ridiculous. It does not offend me that someone says Happy Holidays, because I know many people do not celebrate Christmas. I say Merry Christmas, because that's what *I* personally celebrate.