GOSH, ARE YOU A MENNONITE, TOMMY, YO?

I've been reading this entire thread and on many levels, I have to agree with Tommy.

Iraq didn't attack us. Al Qaeda did.
That's like if the KKK attacked some African country, and their national army declared war on America.
Al Qaeda, like the KKK is an extremist group. Just because the KKK is based in America and they hate black people, doesn't mean that every American hates black people. Al Qaeda does not represent the ideals of every Iraqi. They may represent the ideals of some, but unless their GOVERNMENT has declared that they plan to attack us and went through with that attack, it is NOT the Iraqi people who are attacking us. Thus, we have no legal right to attack them based on the Constitution, the highest form of law in our land.

Our troops are supposed to be our brightest and our best. I want to support the troops. But I can understand what Tommy is saying about the fact that this war is indeed illegal, and that supporting those who blindly follow orders, despite their morals and personal ideals, is not in fact, sending the right message.

I am in no way saying that our troops should be verbally abused when they come home, or that they should be treated as anything less than heroes. They did in fact put their lives on the line for our country, regardless of the legality of the action.

Say you were told that you had to do something, and it completely went against your beliefs and your morals. Would you still do it? Could you kill someone that may not have done anything wrong? Just because someone told you to? Or would you say no, come hell or high water, and refuse to compromise yourself as a person? Do we really want our best and brightest being put in situations that force them to go against their own morals? That seems so wrong to me.

The main theme that I get from Tommy's statements is that it's more about standing up for what you believe in and not blindly taking orders and believing what others tell you. We live in a democracy and there are options. It's not necessarily the easy way out, but it's the people who stand up for injustice that can change the system. And we are extremely lucky to have a government in which changing the system is even possible.

YES! You said it better than anyone else could. I completely agree with you.

I see what you're saying, but in that same end, what are our troops s'posed to do? Unless there's MASSIVE reformation, they can do nothing BUT follow orders or be punished accordingly. To go AWOL is illegal and is hurting themselves and their families. They might not have realized what they had signed up for and then all of a sudden are commanded to do something they don't agree w/ or enjoy. That's the horrible thing about war, that there is collateral damage. I don't condone or enjoy it, but it's something horrible that has to be done sometimes. Yes, we went there for the wrong reasons, but as a whole, the military HAS to listen to what their commander commands them. If we didn't HAVE soldiers, then there'd be a draft, and if men fled from the draft, then where would we be? My brain just keeps heading towards thoughts of anarchy.

To completely not support our troops would be completely hypocritical imo regardless of what I think of the war.

I hope that all made sense and wasn't just me going around in circles.

It made sense and I get what you're saying, don't worry!

I guess what I'm saying is that there is something to be said for integrity, and standing up for what you believe in. It's not always the easiest way out, a lot of times there are consequences. But I want to entrust my country to people who stand up for what they believe in and stand against an illegal war, not ones who blindly follow orders. As hard as the military tries, they cannot remove one's ability to think for themselves. And most people who sign up for the military realize that they are going to have to follow orders, but it's the fact that those in command aren't being truthful/telling the whole story. There's something to be said for following orders that you know in your heart (or the law tells you) are wrong. Y'know?

Before I read this forum, I was definitely one of the people who said, "I support the troops, but not the war." But for the most part, I'm a pacifist, and anti-war (or tree-hugging hippy, whichever you want to call it), so those things combined with the fact that we are there illegally and breaking both the laws of our Constitution as well as international laws, I can see where Tommy is coming from.

For those of you with this notion that we are attacking IRAQ... we're not, and never have. We are strategically attacking those radical extremists, and terrorists that have been attacking not only their own people, but us as well. We have not attacked Iraq as a country, and continue to help Iraq become a stronger, more stable country with a government that is able to take care of itself. We ARE making many strides over there... though so many choose not to believe it, it's true. Believe me, my husband, brother-in-law, sister, and countless friends and loved ones have lived this war. They were THERE. They are not BLINDLY taking orders. They are not told to go over there and kill, lol. That's idiotic. They kill when they are being shot at, bombed, etc. We don't just seek people out, and kill whoever gets in our way. If you think that's true, you have NO CLUE about the tactics of the US military. They do what they are told, yes, but because they believe i or country, and their mission to keep us safe. You don't know the amount of danger our country would be in without keeping these extremists under control. You have no clue. These people are not some small, obsolete group like the KKK... they are everywhere. They are willing to kill anyone to support their cause. You, me, their friends, their family... whoever it takes to take us down. Do I LIKE this war? No, of course not. Who likes war? I don't want my husband to leave. I don't want my daughter to be without her daddy for 2 out of her 3 years of life. But, I believe in this war, because in the end, it makes our country safer. I believe in the mission of our troops. I believe in this country.

For those of you with this notion that we are attacking IRAQ... we're not, and never have. We are strategically attacking those radical extremists, and terrorists that have been attacking not only their own people, but us as well. We have not attacked Iraq as a country, and continue to help Iraq become a stronger, more stable country with a government that is able to take care of itself. We ARE making many strides over there... though so many choose not to believe it, it's true. Believe me, my husband, brother-in-law, sister, and countless friends and loved ones have lived this war. They were THERE. They are not BLINDLY taking orders. They are not told to go over there and kill, lol. That's idiotic. They kill when they are being shot at, bombed, etc. We don't just seek people out, and kill whoever gets in our way. If you think that's true, you have NO CLUE about the tactics of the US military. They do what they are told, yes, but because they believe i or country, and their mission to keep us safe. You don't know the amount of danger our country would be in without keeping these extremists under control. You have no clue. These people are not some small, obsolete group like the KKK... they are everywhere. They are willing to kill anyone to support their cause. You, me, their friends, their family... whoever it takes to take us down. Do I LIKE this war? No, of course not. Who likes war? I don't want my husband to leave. I don't want my daughter to be without her daddy for 2 out of her 3 years of life. But, I believe in this war, because in the end, it makes our country safer. I believe in the mission of our troops. I believe in this country.

I comeplety agree with you..

For those of you with this notion that we are attacking IRAQ... we're not, and never have.

-try telling that to the 100,000 dead Iraqi civilians: http://www.iraqbodycount.org/


We are strategically attacking those radical extremists, and terrorists that have been attacking not only their own people, but us as well.


--There were no "terrorist" in Iraq Saddam was a sworn enemy of al qaeda. but al qaeda is there now, thanks to the US disrupting a country the NEVER attack us, EVER! Saddam did NOT kill his own people, those were Kurds, that were promise a state of their own by Iran, the Kurd allowed Iranianian troops to set up base in Northern Iraq, and the Iraqi KURDS (formerly of Kurdistan, whom lost the country in the treaty of Sèvres, an injustice act) They got caught in a cross fire between Iran and Iraq during the Iran Iraq war, the US supplied Iraq with mustard gas, and Russia supplied Iran with a blood agent gas, whom btw the majority of the Kurds died from the blood agent (Russia/Iran, and not the mustard gas from the US/Iraq) you are spreading known disinformation told by HOLLYWOOD main stream media


We have not attacked Iraq as a country, and continue to help Iraq become a stronger, more stable country with a government that is able to take care of itself. We ARE making many strides over there... though so many choose not to believe it, it's true.

--we have no right to be there, and the Iraqis do not want us there. They were not in any danger and did not harbor terroist, nor did they have plans to attack the US or anyone else with WMDs that they didnt even have.
we still murder Iraqi and Afghan civilians each and every month. and have thousands in prison that have been torched, and we have not given many of them a trial, or charged them with any crime. You have no clue to what goes on there. It;s not a fucking camping trip, it a WAR, and illegal war at that!


Believe me, my husband, brother-in-law, sister, and countless friends and loved ones have lived this war. They were THERE. They are not BLINDLY taking orders. They are not told to go over there and kill, lol. That's idiotic. They kill when they are being shot at, bombed, etc.

--hey had no right to go there in the first place, you "idiot"
they have no right to be there now, idiot
they must stand down, and they can do that legal, bec its an illegal war, idiot
If you play with bees, dont cry like a bitch when you get stung, idiot


We don't just seek people out, and kill whoever gets in our way. If you think that's true, you have NO CLUE about the tactics of the US military.

--ever hear of shock and awe? huh, idiot? better check the Iraqi death toll again. you have no clue!


They do what they are told, yes, but because they believe i or country, and their mission to keep us safe. You don't know the amount of danger our country would be in without keeping these extremists under control. You have no clue. These people are not some small, obsolete group like the KKK... they are everywhere. They are willing to kill anyone to support their cause. You, me, their friends, their family... whoever it takes to take us down.



--You must understand what motivates their hatred of the US, because if you remain clueless about what motives them, and continue to do the illegal and unconstitutional actions that do motivate them (read Osama's fatwas:FATAWA ) you and your type, will always be the chicken running around with it's head cut off



Do I LIKE this war? No, of course not. Who likes war? I don't want my husband to leave. I don't want my daughter to be without her daddy for 2 out of her 3 years of life.

--Then do something about it! He doesn't have to legaly fight in a unconstituional war: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ehren_Watada


But, I believe in this war, because in the end, it makes our country safer. I believe in the mission of our troops. I believe in this country.


--wrong, the mission has made us less safe and is a complete failure, and on top of it illegal, and many war crimes have been committed.


ps. If you love this country, please stop spreading lies about it!

tortured*

So, if the actions in Iraq are done to help Iraq, then why are thousands of people leaving Iraq as since troops have been there the country has been far more dangerous and the quality of life is far worse. Many Iraqi people have had to flee to the UK as our soldiers have put their life in danger, they all say problems only started in the country when we couldn't keep our noses out. If you are so strategically attacking terrorists and extremists, then why are civilians being killed, imprisoned and raped?

What a sad thread to read on the front page of bloop on Memorial Day.

FAIL.

truth hurts dont it!

The only truth here is that you posted this to get reactions from people to feed your own need to stir up trouble and cause drama.

what you think is all you will ever see

Do you honestly know anything about what operation ENDURING freedom and Operation Iraqi freedom are? We are not attacking afghanistan or iraq....we are fighting the terrorist groups trying to over throw their govt and terrorize their citzens. I as a veteran can honestly say no one i know in my former units have killed anyone much less innocent women in children. but what about the douche bags that kill innocent soldiers not doing anything but trying to help give them freedom? i guess the US should have just sat back and let hitler kill everyone he didnt like. cuz honestly the same thing is happening over there. just bcuz ur anti-war or whatever does not mean you cannot support the troops. I guess if it werent for soldiers like us you wouldnt have the right to be so ignorant and stupid and actually voice your opinions. I am thankful for all the men and women who served, and continue to serve our country.

PROUD US ARMY VET!!!!!!!!!!

We are not currently attacking Afghanistan or Iraq, but we were, and that was his point. It took us about 8 years to attack the right target.

Actually we hit the the right target from the onset of the war but got sidetracked by Bush's war of choice in Iraq. There is NO doubt that Afghanistan is the primary front on the war on terror. We took our eye off the ball and allowed them to slip into Pakistan where we now have to deal with a whole new host of nightmares as seen in the news today.

This is correct.

try reading the whole thread,
I and others have thoroughly pointed out how full of shit you are.
read and and see for your self.
I dont feel like typing it all out again for some lazy twit

okay I have some time for you now. and I apologize for not addressing your words. I shall do that now. Njoy :)


Do you honestly know anything about what operation ENDURING freedom and Operation Iraqi freedom are?

--yes, they are fake names that came much later. First it was to find the WMDs, including the known lie over a forgery from Niger that said Saddam attempted to purchase yellow cake from Niger. It was a known forgery before Bush even mentioned it in his 2002 state of the Union address, it was a such a poor forgery that it even had the president of Niger's name wrong LOLS! btw it happen to be a felony to knowingly lie to the america public during a state of the union address. Then it became, well no WMDs but lets take out the evil dictator Saddam whom we put into power and fancied althroughout the 80's. Our friend, Saddam. The US made up the lie that Saddam killed his own people in a mass murder, wrong wrong wrong. Saddam those were Kurds that got caught in a cross fire between Iran/Iraq and teh majority died from a blood agent (Russia/Iran, and not from mustard gas (US/Iraq) Then it became operation forced freedom by way of death murder rape kill. Iraq was no threat to anyone, let alone a sup[er power like the US, they had no WMDs, Saddam never mass murdered his own people, he is/was an elected president of a country at war for the majority of his time in office. which is never good for anyone. Considering Saddam was a puppet for the US in waring with Iran, and we no longer like Iran, when they kicked out the King Shaw dictator the guy we liked and supplied nuclear technology, and they took their own country back and have elections now. ....I can go on and on, I've done my homework. The point is the US played their boy Saddam like a rag doll and tossed in the trash we they no longer needed him.



We are not attacking Afghanistan or iraq....we are fighting the terrorist groups trying to over throw their govt and terrorize their citizens.

--trying telling that to the well over 100,000 Iraqi/Afghan dead civilians! including 100's of CHILDREN!


I as a veteran can honestly say no one i know in my former units have killed anyone much less innocent women in children.


--Innocent women and children died, 100's and thousands of them.
I dont care if you personally killed children or not. It was unconstitutional for you to ever step foot on Iraqi soil, or Afghan soil, Afghan and Iraq never attacked us, you are breaking the law by going there, and deserve to be pout in JAIL! Real men fought and died for the constitution we have, and total disgraceful non-american pieces of shit like you that trample all over teh constitution need to get the fuck out of this country that you have no clue as to what it stands for!


but what about the douche bags that kill innocent soldiers not doing anything but trying to help give them freedom?

--Iraqis never want the US there, the US has no right to be their. Insurgents are not douche bags or terroist, they are fighting for THIER COUNTRY
You have no right to force a foreign government out with bombs murder death kill rape. You are breaking international and should be put in jail for war crimes, and all insurgents should be praised for fighting an illegal ocupation.



i guess the US should have just sat back and let hitler kill everyone he didnt like. cuz honestly the same thing is happening over there.

--The US DID sit back and do nothing, because it was NOT her fight! Not until the Japs attacked our ships at pearl harbor. only once we were attacked did we have any reason to join the war. We did condemn Germany and boycott their products, bec by law, that's all you can do, you have to be attacked. before you can fight back. Preemptive strikes are not only unconstitutional, they also break international law in rules of engagement.
You're not the thought police, any country is more than welcome to shot their mouth off and flex their mighty toys and point nukes at US lie China and Russia do, just has long as no one attacks us, who fucking cares. but cross that line and attack our country, and we have the right to fight back. 9/11 was not an attack from Afghan, or Iraq. It was from a few terroist that did not like the US putting military bases on their Holy Land, and killing and raping Muslims. 9/11 was done in retaliation. Until you understand what motivates terrorism, you will never stop it, you have to address the root cause.


just bcuz ur anti-war or whatever does not mean you cannot support the troops.

--I'm not antiwar. I'm pro constitution and international law. BIG difference!


I guess if it werent for soldiers like us you wouldnt have the right to be so ignorant and stupid and actually voice your opinions.


--Sorry punk. You're stomping all over the constitution of the United States of America
The very thing that REAL soldiers fought and died for.





I am thankful for all the men and women who served, and continue to serve our country.


--Then stop spitting on their graves by supporting illegal wars and those that fight them!



PROUD US ARMY VET!!!!!!!!!!

^^^misguided supporter of illegal wars and the war criminals that fight them

There are many things that I agree with here.

In the end we have to realise that troops, soldiers, are the pawns of politicians.

Completely agree w/ this.

Just thought I would stop by to say this:

"--The US DID sit back and do nothing, because it was NOT her fight! Not until the Japs attacked our ships at pearl harbor"

i'm sure it had NOTHING to do with the oil embargo...

you shouldn't take things out of context

The US could not legally enter the war, until she was attacked first.
believe me you, the US did everything in her power to make that happen.
If you are truly interested in what really happen, I dont feel like typing out WW2 for you
but ask around, I have before, and can do it again ;)
my views almost entirely align with one Mr Jim Condit JR.