I've had time to think about this. I called my mom yesterday and talked to her about it because I was so upset. Emily was a really good friend and we talked about everything. I thought she was a great person. But this comes to show that you never really know someone. Granted I never met her in real life but it felt like I knew her since I have been talking to her for almost 7 years.

I am very appalled at what she did. But I would like to hear what she has to say... only because she was a "friend" of mine. But every time I hear a story about someone harming a child I am quick to judge and send that person ill wishes. But it feels different when that someone is a supposed "friend" of yours. Of course I think she deserves jail time for what she did. She was very wrong in what she did. But I do think she should voice why she did it. Maybe it's just me.... but I would like to hear it from her. It won't change my attitude toward her and won't change the fact that what I think she did was horrible and disgusting... but I think she owes it to the people who "knew" her.

I was so upset about this... but now I feel numb about it. I really don't need to get upset anymore about this because it was causing me to have cramps yesterday and I am 14wks pregnant.

I agree that the thread should be deleted... but it still won't stop people from bashing her.

I agree that its not right to be judging her unless you, yourself wants to be judged which is more or less what I have been saying this whole time - Anyone of us is capable of doing what has been done - does that mean that we would do it - i would hope not - but it doesn't mean that it isnt a possibility -

yes this thread does irritate me bacause i personally knew her - i persaonlly met her - i am shocked about the whole ordeal - i am not trying to justify what she did - i am trying to get this thread deleted because I personally think what some others have stated -

it doesn't matter what we say - it doesn't matter what was done - how it was handled - we can't change the outcome - we cant change the end result - there are so many things that could have factored into why she did what she did - but without being her we couldn't possibly know any of those things -

everyone keeps saying the want to know her side of the story - I agree with BehindBlueEyes when she says no one has the right to know that - however, if we did know it would it change your opinion or just give you more bashing material -

i'm a mother of 3 young children - i couldn't imagine hurting them - every day i feel blessed to have them in my life - every day i can't wait to see what new tings they do or to see their sweet smiles - be embraces with the soft hugs - get the slobbery kisses - spend time snuggling when they are upset - its what parenting is -

factor in other things such as a preemie birth times 2 - a sick child from the day they were born - hundreds of doctors visits - numerous medical problems - I can understand how it could be overwhelming - if any of us were dealing with everything she had on a daily basis - i am positive that we would be making unrational decisions -

I agree that she should have sought help - I'm glad that Dakota is alright - she is certainly in my thoughts and prayers as well as the other children and emily - and has I have stated numerous times - I think this thread should be deleted and no one can make me change my mind about that -

I agree.
"yes this thread does irritate me bacause i personally knew her - i persaonlly met her - i am shocked about the whole ordeal - i am not trying to justify what she did - i am trying to get this thread deleted because I personally think what some others have stated"

I said things when i was angry, I admit that.

rather than try to get it deleted, why don't you just stop visiting it? i'm not trying to be rude, but i think it's perfectly ok for their to be a thread on this and for people to express their feelings on it, however harsh, shocked, or rude you may find those feelings. if you don't like the thought of it, just stop coming and reading the replies.

I disagree. Other mothers have sick kids and go through hell with them. But most of them don't resort to harming their own child (or making irrational decisions).

This is true, but every mother is different, and occasionally people can become totally mentally deranged. The brain is a fragile thing.

I have no idea what was going on in this girl's head - I never knew her. But I would say she had to be sick in some way. A 'normal' mother, in her right mind, would simply not do this. Not out of goodness or badness, but just from the natural animal instinct to protect one's offspring from danger. This is an instinct that most mothers have - a quite amoral instinct, because from an evolutionary point of view, protecting one's offspring is self-protection. So when someone deviates from the instinct like this, there is clearly something very wrong happening in her head. The extent to which she is responsible for her actions is of course debatable, and none of us can know. But there is clearly some kind of sickness going on.

I totally agree that every mother is different. I just didn't agree with graficka's comment that everyone, if put in that position would make irrational decisions.

And I think it depends on your definition of 'sickness'. Because Munchausens by proxy (which sounds likely) is not a medical or psychiatric illness. I agree that under stress, someone may do something irrational, but I don't think that that necessarily always beens they are mentally unwell. I think many parents who harm their children probably have personality disorders, but personality disorders are not allowed as a defence in court, because the person still knows right from wrong and is control of their actions.

That should be 'means', not 'beens'. :P

Ah, yes, I agree, it's impossible to make generalisations and say every mother would do the same in the same situation. We have no way of knowing that.

As for Munchausens by Proxy, it has not been classified as mental illness, but it's quite possible that someone who has it may be mentally unwell. That girl does not look mentally well, in her eyes. And it's quite unlikely that a mentally healthy person would just decide 'Hey, I feel like a bit of attention - I'm going to endanger my baby's life!' Trouble is with the brain, so much is unknown about it. And I think there is a continuum - being mentally unwell doesn't necessarily mean you are not at all responsible for your actions, or that you don't know what you're doing. I don't think it's black and white like that at all.

I agree (I think). Plus people have mentioned her having depression and bulimia, so it is certainly possible she did have some degree of underlying mental illness.

However, not everyone who does bad things have mental illnesses (if they did, they'd all be on psych wards, rather than in prison!). Sometimes people just make bad (and possibly irrational) choices. Mothers who shake their babies to death to because they won't stop crying don't necessarily have a mental illness... but they are under stress. So I don't think because someone does something bad, it necessarily means they have a mental illness.

No, yo - I was not saying that everyone who does bad things has a mental illness. But there is a big difference between shaking one's baby in a moment of stress and loss of control, and consistently putting poo in her IV tube, knowing it could kill her. This is a clear sign of sickness to me.

However, as I said, I do see mental illness as being on a continuum, and even stress is mental health issue, but I don't think that mental health issues, or even mental illnesses, necessarily mean that someone is not responsible for their actions. Mental problems can make things harder for someone - but that doesn't always mean the person doesn't have a choice. But on the other hand, there are mental illnesses where a person really has no idea what they are doing, and can't believe it when they have passed their very unwell phase and realise what they've done.

And all I can say with this Emily girl is I have no idea to what extent she was in her 'right mind', and I don't think any of us can know this. I mean, for all we know, she might have some weird tumour growing on her brain.

And i hope she gets the help she needs!

Prettylittlekitty. I did the same - called my mum as well. lol.I'm teh same as you.. It really has affected me :( Its awful. I don't know how i feel right now.
And yes I agree.. thread to be deleted please Steve!

i called my mum too! she remembers her because she used to love the baby pictures of julian- she'd coo over them quite literally!! she was very shocked, too.

LOL same with my mum!!! LOL. Haha @ us and our mums, eh? lol.

You want it deleted cos truth about someone you know is hard to take be honest and admit if this was some random news article reproduced here you would be bagging them along with everyone else. Thats not aimed specifically at you...btw but the generic you.

http://www.statesman.com/news/content/news/stories/local/archive/mcdonald_preemie.html

I just watched the videos of those babies and am sitting here crying. how could she?

That's ... ew. sick. I'm going to put my chocolate ice cream back in the fridge.

lol

"While this mother's actions are clearly morally and criminally wrong, the many vengeful and hateful comments presented here portray a view of public opinion that lacks empathy and shows a profound ignorance of mental illness. Beyond that, many who claim to be religious show a complete disregard for human compassion, yes, even for this woman. How can you rejoice at the punishment for another person, even if what they did was clearly wrong? Is vengefulness and retribution really what you think justice is all about? We should feel relieved that this crime was uncovered, and that this poor child will now recover. That is indeed positive. And we should hope that this mother gets the help she needs. If all you feel is anger, hate, and vengeance, maybe you should take a hard look at yourself and what is wrong with you."

a comment left here -

http://www.statesman.com/news/content/news/stories/local/06/04/0604waste.html

"It's not about revenge, it's about removing a worthless human being from the gene pool." Is that really what you think being a good citizen is all about? Did you get that from the teachings of Christ, or was it another religion? I am also curious to learn what qualifies you to judge that this woman is a worthless human being? Did you ever think that she might be ill, or that there are other aspects to her life that are far from worthless? The act she did is reprehensible and cannot be defended. But we have a system of rights in this country that protects us all under the law, and there is are good reasons for that. Because someday, the tables may be turned, and it is you who they want to remove from the gene pool."

a comment left here -

http://www.statesman.com/news/content/news/stories/local/06/04/0604waste.html

Just as well I am not a chrisitan then.

I still think she is revolting.

Oh..and lets not forget..
Exodus 21:23-25 (King James Version)

23And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,

24Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,

25Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.


If we wanna bring religion into this.

Well, equally this person is judging the judgers. One could argue that a feeling of anger and desire for retribution is a normal human reaction to hearing of someone being treated in a cruel, inhumane way. In fact, God himself realised this was normal, and thus rather than making a rule against such feelings (you can hardly rule against feelings) he made a law that people who had inadvertently killed someone could have a safe place to hide in, so that the angry vengeful relatives would not kill them in return. And this law was about inadvertent killing - where it was a pure accident. Because the normal reaction to having someone you love killed is anger and desire for revenge.

It's daft telling people what they *should* feel. Feelings are a chemical reaction to a certain event. If you had a child whose baby sitter had attempted to kill her, you might be feeling these anger emotions too, even if it turned out that this baby sitter wasn't right in the head and was doing it for attention, etc.