I guess I missed the "using you non-personal diary to start drama" bit haha, but it doesn't surprise me. However I do not think that has to be the outcome of all non-personal diaries.

Well these are the 2 Bloopers who took the initiative to create this diary, whether we like it or not. Fortunately they are offering to let other long term Bloopers join in as well, so it's not just one person doing it, not just one tone being used, etc. Hopefully this will prevent the "drama" issues.

But as you put, Steve is always updating and changing things, so there are always things to update and write about for a newcomer. Another idea is to post questions from people and the answers as well. Even just updating it semi-regularly to let people know it is still used and still being updated is a good option. I thought BDB was an abandoned diary when I came back this time. It had on 4 entries and hadn't been updated.

Nope, it doesn't have to be the outcome of all non-personal diaries. My point was more to explain Botty's qualms about Jess. Knowledge of certain Bloopers means that you can predict that this outcome is more likely if the non-personal diary is run by someone who is prone to dramaz! But who knows - people can change and mature over time, so it remains to be seen. It makes no difference to me - I'm not a n00b! I was just thinking of the effect on Bloop as a whole - but I'm sure if negative effects were happening, Steve would intervene.

I don't think I said Steve was always updating things, yo - like, he often experiments and tries things out which aren't permanent changes to the site, and then when he's figured out how to implement a new feature, he adds it and announces it in Bloop News. It's not, like, a weekly thing, or even a monthly thing. So I can't see how a diary explaining how Bloop works would be being constantly updated, unless the same ground kept being revisited. Most sites have just a few pages about how to use the site, rather than a blog devoted to it. But it looks like Chris and Jess plan to do more with their diary than just post entries - it seems that they want to interact with n00bs, show them around, etc, which would involve lots of personal conversation through comments and/or chat, and a lot of repetition of the same thing with each person. This would involve a tremendous amount of commitment, time, courtesy, patience and flexibility, but if they're willing and able to do this, then good for them.

You had said something about Steve changing things, and one of the bugs on the site. That's what I meant by updating, is that there are always things being changed here and there. After covering all the basic ground even updating monthly would be a good idea, just to let people know that the diary isn't another one that has been abandoned. I've seen a ton of those on here lately, a lot don't have any entries at all. Hm, we should have a place to report diaries that have been totally abandoned for a long time and/or that have no entries.

Maybe because I've been on and off this site since the beginning I really don't know people's tendencies towards drama or not on here. I guess I just gave the people running it the benefit of the doubt. I really don't know their history on this site and with fellow Bloopers enough to say anything on that. I would hope there wouldn't be any negative affects on Bloop as a whole, but then again I can't see how that could happen on a non-personal Bloop diary. But I try not to get involved in the "dramaz" as you put it, hahaha. The last time I was here, the biggest scandal were fake pregnancy and baby diaries. Anything after that I missed.

@ashalicious: updates and bugs are usually kept to the bloop news diary. it seems kinda redundant to update two other diaries to tell us about a bug or a new feature.

bloop diary basics didn't really need to replace every entry that was lost, as lithium layouts said, many things were dropped and she compiled most of the entries into one. i'd rather read through 4 entries that explain everything, than 40+ entries. that's far more confusing as a new comer.

I didn't find anything confusing about the Help Desk entries. It's much easier for a new person to take in small bits and pieces than a huge page of info on a site they've never used before. Do new Bloop people always know about reading about things that are fixed and changed? No. They could look at that as "What the hell or these people talking about?" It's nice to have a place where they can go and have it explained. I just learned 2 days ago that there is an IM feature on Bloop when crap kept popping up in colors on the top of my screen, hahaha and I've been here on and off for years. BDB had 4 entries, the diary looked abandoned, it didn't look user friendly. I often wondered why it was still on the main page for those reasons.This is a new fresh, updated, take on an idea. I think we should be glad there is help for newbies on Bloop that they can actually use.

but bdb does have it all explained and it's generally updated when new features are implemented. the only lengthy entry is the first one, which could probably use splitting up, but considering we didn't really have any help back when i joined i think that entry does a decent job of explaining it all.

the only reason it looked abandoned is that there hasn't been much else to update on, and not many people were asking questions on the diary. you can't really update something if no one's asking anything. i think the same thing will probably happen to this new diary too.

i've got nothing against either diary, but i find it odd anyone would find the original one not good enough.

Hmm... replies to individual posts are posting themselves at the end of the thread rather than underneath the post in question, as used to be the case. Is that a deliberate change to the forums or a bug? And is this one of the nooks and crannies that the Bloop Diary Help Desk knows about? ;D Srsly, I'd be wary of saying you have all the answers, because often Steve changes things without announcing it, and sometimes bugs happens, so you won't always have the answer to every question people ask! Might be more accurate to say that you'll attempt to answer all questions, and if you don't know the answer, you'll try to find out!

Estella, Steve changed it so that posts appear in time order rather than reply order. I think it's to stem drama. http://www.bloopdiary.com/bloopnews/changes-to-forum

Ah yes, Anon Source also told me this! Gosh, yo - I remember that change being made ages ago, but people didn't like it, and there was a poll vote where people voted for the old way, so it was changed back. But now, alas, it's gone back to the change that people didn't like! It's impossible to follow forum conversations this way - you have no way of knowing who's replying to who. This will stem forum discussion in general, not just dramaz.

i agree. this way isn't very good at all. it's a lot harder to follow who's talking to who.

I'll repost the same thing I said in the staff diary...

Personally, I think it is awesome that Chris and Jess have taken a step towards helping and greeting new Bloopers. Even a redundant welcome can make a person feel more welcome. I know that coming from a user perspective, when joining a new site (like a forums somewhere) that it makes you feel more at home. I am more likely to stick around a site that over greets people and tries to help them, rather than one that doesn't do any of that and seems to not give a shit about me.

All this in-depth discussion about it isn't really needed nor productive. They are trying to help. Please let them.

I like that they're trying to help, but redundant help isn't actually help. It's being redundant. Typically in a situation where someone needs computer assistance, they don't need an entourage. They just need one person with the answer. We have that one person with the answer. BDB. Done. How many times do people need written directions on how to log out of their diaries?

And the whole "well they haven't updated" is just ridiculous. You don't need twelve entries on that tricky "post reply" button on the forums.

@ Emily .... Ok

doc, there's nothing wrong with discussing things, yo. that's the point of the forums afterall! i have to say i agree with most of what's being said in here.

THANK YOU!! Well said! What I was trying to say when this become some pick everything apart arrangement where people are just taking personal sides.

BDB is a great diary. That doesn't mean HD can't still exist to achieve their own goals. Though, sadly Teresa, I am one of the many who thought BDB was abandoned.

Coming from a service diary background that dates back to even the early days of Teen Open Diary, I learned very quickly that even though I was the first real html help diary on that site, once I established myself, it didn't take long for other people to take my foundation and make their own spin on it. It didn't mean I was a crappy help diary, it just meant that someone else felt awesome enough to take the idea and make whatever improvements they felt were necessary to help whatever people I wasn't reaching.

I read through the HD entries late one night as they were all overwhelming the New Entries list, and parts of them seemed like they didn't need to be explained but to us it is different. For those of us who have been on [and occassionally off] Bloop since it came to fruition, the basics are boring to read over and over again. But I agree with Chris and Jess about the fresh take on the interactive part. The only thing I would change is the requirment age on the site. You don't have to have 6 years of experience on this site to know how to answer some in depth questions and make someone feel like they aren't the lost voice in a crowd wanting advice or layout help.

Bottom line: Chris and Jess are not attempting to replace BDB. They are simply taking the same idea and making the necessary improvements they feel are needed. It's not like they are plotting murder on Teresa's Mom's Neighbor's dog.

@Rhapsody: I totally get where you're coming from. It did/does look abandoned. I just took offence at people thinking that it WAS abandoned and useless because I put a LOT of work into it. It's on my switch list and I check it immediately if it gets a new comment or message. I only update it, however, when a new major feature comes in, which is once in a blue moon. I don't see the point in updating it constantly - mainly because there's nothing to update on! - and I think the same thing will eventually happen to the Help Desk because Bloop is not infinite.

I see BDB as a place that fully explains new features as they come into play, or a place that explains confusing existing features (e.g. switching) in an (I hope!) easy to understand way.

The main thing I take issue with regarding the Help Desk and BDB is the duplication of information between the two diaries. It's redundant. But I think Jess and Chris are doing a great thing. I think a focus on the interactive side of things would be great, since, like I said, they will eventually run out on things to update on.

^ I see what you are saying. You did do a lot of hard work in the BDB diary. I hope you didn't think I was speaking against you in any way. If it seems that I did, I apologize. It was not meant that way. I only meant the more the merrier kind of thing. :)