I agree with .November.Butterfly. here, there is just no excuse for smacking a toddler. Developmentally they are not old enough to understand the difference between right and wrong or why it's okay to throw a ball outside but not throw toys inside for example. I'm mum to a toddler, I know how frustrating it can be when they're pushing their boundries and testing your patience... but thats what toddlers do and thats how they learn, you can't punish them for being themselves...

I think parents these days are too quick to ignore spankings. I was spanked as a child and I don't have self-esteem issues. Part of the reason we have so many children running amok is that parents refuse to punish them. Time-outs do NOTHING to help the situation. Nothing wrong with a little parental fear to make them respect what we say so we can ACT like parents! Grow a set people!

Time-outs do work, me and my sister were hit as punishment as kids, which never worked and we were still naughty (something my mum agrees with and wishes she hadn't hit us and instead used real punishment). My cousins however have never been hit in their lives, instead they had time-outs and privileges taken away, e.g favourite toy and they were always very well behaved.

Gosh read my above post! Didn't work on me! I remember when my mom took away my face paints for like a month (I coloured my hands in green and then went up the stairs on my hands and knees) so I hunted them down instead mwaha!
The problem with discipline is what works on one child does not always work on another.

I guess I have to agree with this, not all punishments work on every child. My fiancee and I have issues with this-I say no to spanking, she says she believes in spanking only when all others fail (not as a toddler but when you're older-in elementary/middle school). She said that she's only been slapped once and that one time she believes that she definitely deserved it. She also said that her mom had to use a different form of punishment for her younger brother because he was a very sensitive little kid (like me).

After my dad spanked me for the first time, I wouldn't let him come near me for a long time. I would scream whenever he tried to pick me up-I would only let my mom handle me. Needless to say, my dad never spanked me again.

I'm a firm believer of taking away priviledges, time-outs, etc. (like what Transit said)

"The problem with discipline is what works on one child does not always work on another."

I completely agree with that. I used to baby sit this little boy that was a little terror at times. There was no way that sitting and talking to him would work.

Haha tell me about it! I work in a nursery and some kids are such little *&^%(&^%!! There is no reasoning with them. They just ignore you. Thankfully most respond to 'the look' ;D

haha Yeah the look can be a good one too. I worked at a daycare for 3 years some of them would make you want to pull your hair out

i don't want my kid to be scared of me! i want her to respect me, and trust me.
by smacking i'd be ruining that trust and respect she has for me. To instill fear of me now would mean that in the future she might not want to come to me for help when shes made a mistake and needs help.

All I meant by "fear" was that any child would think twice about the consequences of their actions (in terms of punishment in addition to the actual consequence of their action). I still went to mom for help regardless of the spankings I received. I think a healthy mix of discipline is good but I think that parents get too afraid of being accused of beating their child over a simple swat. It's not going to scar them for life is all I'm saying.

But my mom smacked me and we have always had a great relationship. It never instilled fear; I resented her for that short moment, sure, but we were back to being best friends after I calmed down.

I think people over-analyse smacking.

but is a 'it didn't happen to me' case enough to sway the debate? raising a hand and striking a small person just doesn't seem right to me, and there are other ways to deal with bad behaviour.

As Aspiring Boxer said, I think the child's personality plays a big part. You're not going to smack a timid child, but a brash, loud child like I was... well! Haha.

'It didn't happen to me' is never a good way to sway a debate. But this is a subject for which I doubt there's much actual scientific evidence. But it's something in which everyone has some experience as we've all been children! But in your saying that smacking instills fear and a loss of respect isn't based on any evidence either. And you were implying that that is the case generally. Lady Acid Fairy, myself and the others were simply pointing out that that assumption is very often incorrect.

Not to mention, there was a time when smacking was considered the norm. Yet, 50 years ago there was actually LESS violent crime. Over the years smacking has become less common, yet violent crime levels have risen. Which would not support your point that smacking a child encourages them to be violent themselves.

Similarly, just because time-outs etc have worked for you and your child does not mean they will work for every child. So again, 'it worked for me' doesn't mean it's right for everyone.

i've never mentioned crime levels or anything about future violence in my posts, i'm talking toddlers here... how can you teach a toddler not to hit other toddlers if you hit them is what i am saying. i have no idea about violent crimes or anything like that but i imagine there are many more factors in the rise in crime than smacking children. there are ways to earn respect without raising a hand.
yep maybe i'm making too many generalisations,no parenting technique works for everyone and of course time out might not work for everyone either, but thats why everyone should have a number of different things that they can try before hitting a child. if you're choosing to smack then it should ALWAYS be the last resort.. because it can't go any further than that.

If smacking is the right way to discapline, why are they making it illegal in some places? there must be reasons for that?

Yes, I agree that other methods should always be tried first. But for some children the other methods don't work.

I'm not sure about toddlers, but at a certain age (dependent on each child, but probably around 3 or 4 in my opinion) I do believe a child is capable of dintinguishing between a smack as a punishment, and between hitting other children, which is wrong. I know me and my sister certainly knew the difference, and as I've watched my cousins growing up I can see they can tell the difference too.

And many laws are contraversial. The fact something is law doesn't make it 'right' for everyone on a personal and moral level. Using that argument you could also say, if it was so clearly 'wrong' why hasn't everywhere already made it illegal?

I suspect the reason some places are trying to making smacking illegal is because it becomes difficult, in the eyes of the law to distinguish clearly between smacking as discipline, and abuse. It's not something I know much about, but my guess would be that it's so as to make it easier to convict those who really are abusing their children (as they couldn't then say 'it was just discipline').

Personally I don't believe there is a right way to discipline. Different techniques just work for different children.

Agreed.

After I got spanked by my dad, I was scared of him and wouldn't go near him for awhile.

I wasn't scared of my parents because they smacked me very occassionally. And I still respected and trusted them.

I only remember three spankings I had while growing up. Even though I was young at the time I understood WHY I was getting them and whatever I had done to get the spanking I didn't do again. It didn't hurt my self esteem one bit. I didn't get confused with getting spanked and hitting someone either. Personally I think some kids DO deserve to get spanked if all other options aren't working. Some parents do go over board with spanking and use it when it's not necessary and therefore it doesn't really work. I guess what it comes down to is what parents decide to do, but I honestly think some parents are completely lazy with the discipline these days.

http://www.askdrsears.com/html/6/T062100.asp

dr sears article on reasons not to spank. i was going to copy it here.. its brilliant, but its TOO long! lol.

Spanking should be used as a last resort, when every other form of punishment is not working. I have a friend who spanks their kids for every little move the make that is wrong.
Last time I spanked my son was over a year ago just after he was potty trained, he came over to me completely naked and goes "Mommy I'm gonna pee on you" I looked at him and warned him that he better not and if he did he was in trouble. Next thing I know he's peeing all over the living room floor and laughing about it. So I got up and I spanked his butt for it.

I agree for it to be a last resort when nothing else is working. That's how my mom did me

i spank my son. he is 13 months. i only spank him for one reason. when he crawls out the doggie door. I cant give him time outs, he doesnt listen when i talk, i smack his hand and he thinks i am giving him a 5. so for now i spank him. crawling out the doggie door doesnt seem so bad but things happen. Usually 99% of the time I am watching my son. But something like last night happened. I was cooking and cleaning the kitchen. I thought my dad was watching him. My mom screams for my dad. (my mom is sick and has a broken knee so she is laid up and cant react fast enough.) So i dropped what i was doing. My son wasnt doing anything bad she just wanted to make sure we were watching him. I thought my dad was watching him and my dad appearently was too interested in the game on tv to care to watch him. So what if he would have crawled out the doggie door while no one is watching him? What if he crawled out and it was the middle of a thunderstorm and got struck by lightning? What if he crawled out and climbed up a chair and fell on the cement? What if he crawled out and got bit by a snake? What if he got out and got into the shed in the back with all the power tools and fuel are? (yes these are all what ifs?) But i want my son to know crawling through the doggie door and going outside without adult supervision is not ok. (thankfully we dont have a pool just yet but plan to some day in the future.) Moises only gets spanked with my hand and he always has clothes or a diaper on too pad his bottom and i never do it hard the last time i spanked him he didnt even cry or flinch. The spanking is working for right now. He does not crawl out very often anymore. (he is learning.) I do warn him when I see him close to the doggie door that if he goes out I will spank him. Yes if I could pick him up and move him and attempt to distract him but he tends to think stuff like that is a game. I do plan to stop spanking once he is old enough to comprehend a time out method and understand what losing privledges means.

Trust me I respect my son and he respects me. Respect and spanking have nothing to do with each other in my opinion. I was spanked as a child and it did the job. I learned my lesson. I did not resent my parents. However one time my mom lost control and I was beat with a belt and left with brusies all over my back. I recall when my sister was about 12-13 she was spanked with a wooden spoon and a bare butt because when my mom would spank her with her hands she would turn around and laugh like "that's it? that is all you got?" I think that is too embarassing and disrespectful. Just cause me sister was way too old to be getting spanked.

i respect your right to choose what you feel is right for your son.

however are your expectations too high? at 13 months he wants to learn and explore, of course the doggy door looks brilliant to him, its his size for a start! to avoid spanking him maybe you need to change what you expect of him, realise hes interested in the door,and find a way to keep him safe (like a lock or gate to that room or something) that way you don't need to worry about it so much, and he doesn't need to be spanked for something he doesn't understand yet. Also possibly, the more you make it a big deal for him not to go through the door, the more he might become determined to do it. if you were to somehow lock off the door, keep him from getting to it, and then give him a chance to play with it while you're with him he might just lose interest in it altogether? i'm not sure. just throwing ideas out there
xx

maybe i am expecting too much from him right now. but at what age does it become acceptable that he not go through it? i dont think it would be a good idea for me to let him play with it while i am with him bcuz i dont want him to think its ok it play with it. he doesnt comprehend mommy is watching me=ok or mommy is not watching me =ok. i dont expect him to comprehend that so for now its off limits period. he isnt constantly going to the door all day long he is primarly in our bedroom with his toys or in the living room. i wish i could block or gate the door off. but we have the doggie door so our dogs can go in and out as they please. Transit recommended locking the door while i am busy and all my attention isnt on him, which is a great idea. except the cover that goes to the door wont slide in any more. cuz the rim on the top sticks out. which is causing the whole spanking thing. but now moises understands more that he cannot go outside. he sits at the doggie door and lifts the lil plastic thing up and stares out. lately he is being really good about not crawling out. when he sits there and looks out i do reward him so he can see when he listens to me and does what i ask he gets rewards and when he doesnt he gets spanked. but its not like i walk around spanking him for every little thing i just dont want him to think he can go outside whenever he wants.

just today i heard on the news about a 2 yr old whose mother was at work and the grandfather was babysitting him unlocked and opened the front door and walked out the apartment and started wandering. i am just preventing stuff like that from happening. however when my son is old enough to start doing that we will install a lock way above his height just for extra precaution.

a few yrs ago i heard of a 2 yr old who woke up and went outside while his parents were still sleeping and wandered into a snow storm and froze to death. (i live in florida so that is unlikely to happen anytime soon.) but stuff happens.