I also meant to say, there's an option here to go private, and I think most countries with national health care (Canada, Australia etc) have the option of private treatment. If it works elsewhere I see no reason why it wouldn't work in the US. I'm tempted to say that that is a suggestion created by American insurance companies to scare people because they're worried about the business they'll lose.

And as the WHO report which Transit posted shows, the best quality healthcare systems in the world are mostly in countries with national healthcare. Public most certainly does not equal poor quality. And as someone who works within a national health service I KNOW that the treatment we provide is of high quality.

Oh yes, the insurance companies have a LOT to do with this debate. They do not want to lose business, and they influence Congress with lobbyists and campaign contributions and they have opponents in the local districts, which impedes progress of course. These makes our lawmakers not want to support Obama's plan.

I also just love how some of the insurance companies sponsor commercials on TV claiming they DO want reform, while they are against this plan. :-P

I find it very strange how people are so worried about the government making decisions for them-because their insurance company already does decide who gets what treatment, and it's clearly unfair. It doesn't make sense to me. At least a public option is just that -an OPTION, which is certainly better than no care at all for so many people.

Not to mention, because so many people are uninsured and don't get regular care, we end up spending more on them later when they have very serious conditions or emergency care, since they didn't recieve preventative care.

Medicare and Medicaid are no longer enough unfortunatley. As I previously mentioned, unless you are pregnant, disabled, or over 65 you most likely are denied Medicaid. Medicare is obviously aimed at the elderly, being that you have to be 65 before you're allowed Medicare. And you're right - they have stretched Medicare and stretched it and stretched it until it's about to bust. They're covering less and less. If you're on Medicare and you come to the Emergency Room or are admitted for Observation (a 23 hour or less stay), and you get a "self-administered drug" (i.e. anything that you can give yourself - a pill, topical ointment, some injections, eye drops, inhalers, etc.), Medicare will not cover it. If Medicare denies something, a secondary insurance will not cover a denied Medicare charge. I see people who are admitted as Observation and have $600 in non-covered charges and it's pitiful that these older people just can't understand why. While I do want to see this bill progress, it should not be taken lightly. Giving everyone health coverage might result in sub-standard care.

The point about quality of care has already been addressed. Quality of medical care in the UK is extremely high. And as Transit showed, the countries with the highest quality of medical care in the world are countries with national health care systems.

I agree and I have seen these posts. My point is, is how long has the UK had the NHS? I'm curious because I'm wondering what kind of learning curve there would be with physicians in the US going from our current system to a national healthcare system. While I'm sure the NHS would improve quality care over time, I'm wondering if doctors would become overworked and overloaded before things started to look up.

The UK has had the NHS since 1948. So it was just post world war two, so at a time when I think doctors were less likely to make a fuss about money. Back then people were able to see the bigger picture better I guess... put things into perspective easier. They weren't as money hungry as they are now.

For more about the history of the NHS - http://www.nhshistory.net/shorthistory.htm

I don't doubt that some American doctors will object to the new system because they'll worry they'll lose money. And that could create tensions, but I believe they'll adapt and accept it, particularly once they realise that they can still make decent pay on the new system too.

I don't see any reason why doctors should become overworked and overloaded as a result (in fact in the UK doctors work far shorter hours than American doctors do). I assume because you mean more people will attend hospitals if it's free? Well, if need be, they'll just need more doctors then. But I doubt it'll be a significant problem, because as we've discussed people without health insurance are attending hopitals for emergency treatment anyway. The big issue is chronic health problems, such as diabetes, heart disease, asthma etc, which are usually managed in the community anyway. They only need to see a doctor occassionally to get a check up or a repeat prescription. I guess there may be more elective surgeries, but there'll probably also be less unneccessary surgeries driven by money, so it may balance out.

Anyway, it's a very relavant point, but I believe one that can be dealt with if thought through.

Well, it looks like Obama is about to give up, very disappointing.

The main reason I have seen for opposition for an NHS is that it funds abortion, well, if these people are so concerned about child welfare (your tax $'s already pay for abortion) then where are your entries and protests demanding that children receive health care instead of an early grave? Do these people not care what happens to children once they are born?



This is a list of health care rankings on quality of service, according to WHO

1 France (NHS)
2 Italy (NHS)
3 San Marino (NHS)
4 Andorra (NHS)
5 Malta (NHS)
6 Singapore (NHS)
7 Spain (NHS and some private)
8 Oman (NHS)
9 Austria (NHS)
10 Japan (NHS)
11 Norway (NHS)
12 Portugal (NHS)
13 Monaco (private)
14 Greece (NHS)
15 Iceland (NHS)
16 Luxembourg (two tier)
17 Netherlands (NHS)
18 United Kingdom (NHS)
19 Ireland (NHS)
20 Switzerland (compulsory affordable insurance)
21 Belgium (NHS)
22 Colombia (private and NHS)
23 Sweden (NHS)
24 Cyprus (NHS and private)
25 Germany (NHS)
26 Saudi Arabia (NHS)
27 United Arab Emirates (NHS)
28 Israel (NHS)
29 Morocco (NHS)
30 Canada (NHS)
31 Finland (NHS)
32 Australia (NHS and private)
33 Chile (NHS and private)
34 Denmark (NHS)
35 Dominica (NHS and using private care often in the US)
36 Costa Rica (NHS with private)
37 United States of America (private, medicaid hard to get)
38 Slovenia (private and NHS)
39 Cuba (NHS)
40 Brunei (couldn't find out)

So now I've posted the list above I'll give my experience of the British NHS

When I need to see a doctor/GP, I phone my surgery and get an appointment the same day, if I need a prescription it is free as I live in wales (english it is £7.20, scotland £4 i think). If you are under 18, pregnant, on benefits, pensioner, or have an illness such as diabetes that always requires vital medication you don't pay for prescriptions. If I need a referral, then I get one. If I need to see a doctor outside normal surgery hours, I phone my surgery, which then directs me to which ever GP surgery is doing the night service, then I can either have a doctor come to my house or I can get myself to the surgery. They perform minor surgery such as the snip (ouch) toe nail removal, fitting contraceptive implant.

Nurses at GP surgery they carry out vaccinations, blood tests, change dressings, syringe ears, smear tests, they can come out to your home to change dressings as well.

Hospital, A&E, accident and emergency. If you aren't registered at a local surgery and unsure of opening hours and 24/7 care you can come here, I had to the second day I lived in Wales, I was registered as soon as I got there and before my details were fully typed into the computer a doctor was waiting. Broken legs, falls, stitches etc this is the place to go. When I went I needed antibiotics, I was given them there so I didn't need to go to a pharmacy.

Hospital, surgery, overnight stay etc. I've never personally had to, but from family members who have there have never been any complaints (apart from ym grandma who went a bit bonkers after a hip replacement and was convinced we had secretly put her in a nursing home). I've visited family members in hospital, everything is clean, peaceful and nice. My aunt broke her leg so was in a normal ward with 7 other women, when my grandma was very ill and going to die she was in a side ward on her own for privacy for the family. If your child stays in hospital over night then mum or dad can, for long hospital stays hospitals either have accommodation such as hospital run flats at no fee, or you have a flat like set up attached to your child's hospital room.

Dental, we see the dentist every six months, this is subsidised. I'm not sure of the cost though as my dentist went private and we decided to stay with him as his plan is only £10 a month, so it was easier than finding another NHS dentist we liked. In Wales dental prescriptions are free as well, even tooth paste and mouth wash.

Opticians, free for under 16's. Now, apart from that I'm not sure, I know you can get a vouchers towards the cost of eye tests and glasses, but I'm not totally sure what the requirements are, I've recently applied for a voucher so I would have to get back to you on that.

I have an NHS exemption certificate. It's pants with your glasses... I only got half off the price off my frames. Not even any help with my lenses. I think eye care is where the NHS falls down, but I suppose that is because of all the private companies.

I got free prescriptions when I was a full time student too. With my certificate I get them free also.

I need to find a new NHS dentist, I haven't been in over a year. Gah.

Do you get free prescriptions for your PCOS?

NO! Drives me mad, as of course the meds I am on for PCOS are diabetes type 2 medication (they have no idea why it works, so weird).
My old assistant manager was recently diagnosed with PCOS and she said she was going to put down that she had diabetes as the pharmacist would know no better. But apparently metformin has not been fully approved for the treatment of PCOS, which is why I have to pay for it and also why most women don't get prescribed it.

Oh, and of course you get the pill free on the NHS! One of the best bits about it imo. I read a diary on here where a woman had to come off Yasmin (the BC I am on) because it's one of the most expensive. What a con!

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention all contraception is free, even condoms!

Did you know if you buy condoms from a shop they have VAT on them because they're classed as a 'luxury' and not a necessity ;D

Ah they are stopping that, in fact superdrug already has.

Really?! Wow that's good. I always said, 'hmm, they're kind of a necessity in preventing STDs!' So who pays the VAT on them? Because I doubt very much the gvt have removed it.

I guess superdrug must, ah I just googled, vat on all condoms has been reduced to 5%

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4832814.stm

Good, not good enough! They're like a quid per condom!

Free at the doctors/gum clinic/school! At college they used to give us free vibrating cock rings, yes, that is going to do wonders for pregnancy rates!

Haha love it. When our college gave condoms out, there were just a plethora of condom-shaped balloons floating around.

I still have mine that I got in first year of college, that was three years ago....

hey we got number 32. i was always curious as to where we sat on healthcare.

I didn't realise where countries stood until a few weeks ago, very interesting to see though. The WHO did purely by medical information though, not by plain opinion.

oh well that's good to know that it's information based.

Haha someone has posted a comment on some ones entry stating that people over 50 have to face a euthanasia board in the system Obama is planning! They are probably one of the people that genuinely believed reports that Stephen Hawkings would never be treated within the the UK NHS and that babies with down syndrome are put down!