I would follow the law or leave the country, those are my choices. I would not break the law. If you cannot respect the basic laws and guidelines set forth, then why do you want to live there?

Because not following this law could be looked at as a political statement, and if enough people don't follow these laws, it's all of a sudden not a law.

Let's say you own a country. Population 1,000,000. If you sign a law, and 999,999 people don't follow this law, then the law is moot -- it doesn't exist. Even 500,000. Or 300,000. You can't keep track of THAT many people breaking this law. So they offer a solution. They fix the immigration process, and those 1m/500k/300k people are all of a sudden not breaking any laws.

But that isnt a valid solution. What if no one agreed with child protective laws and everyone began to beat their children sometimes within inches of life. Is it suddenly okay because the majority is doing it? Absolutely not. Does there need to be a change in the system? Yes, but that doesnt mean to hell with all the immigration laws and let everyone in.

Sure, I made a stupid suggestion. But the point is, finding everyone and deporting/detaining them isn't a valid solution either. The law needs to be changed. Sometimes people just don't have the time to wait a year, two, three, four, or even five years for a law to change in their favor. Especially in dire conditions like in some parts of Mexico.

I didnt say ship them all out, infact I said keep them here and give them the chance to earn citizenship by taking the citizenship test. Once they get the citizenship ta-da everything is peachy-keen, jelly bean. We however, cannot keep allowing people to come over here ILLEGALLY until these laws get figured out. We need to secure our borders, we need to get on the ball with giving the people here a chance to get citizenship or get out. We cannot just sit here wide open like a slut on prom night and say "until the laws change just come on over, we will get it sorted out when we get it sorted out"

I know that's not what you said, but that is currently what's happening. If you're here, and you're "illegal," then you're shipped out. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. I haven't offered a solution simply because I don't have a perfect one. I think we're pretty much stuck with this problem simply because -- by "chance" we ended up being a first-world country bordered with a third-world country. It just happens that way. Any country in the first-world bordered with a third-world country has an immigration "problem."

The best idea I've come up with is, until they can figure out their naturalization process, if you're caught being illegal, you take the citizenship test. If you pass, you're granted a temporary citizenship (or whatever) card until you can figure out a way to enter the system to permanent citizenship.

Oh I know how it works, it sucks. My cousins husband was married to her for two years and they had a daughter together, the judge was a racist asshole who shipped him back home for being an illegal and he had to wait in Mexico while his family lived in the US for 5 years. It sucks. Its not perfect, but the first step that needs to be taken is the border needs to be secured, once that is done, THEN we can work on the current laws. Until then all we are doing is letting people in without figuring out what to do about it.

AND a vast number of undocumented immigrants have tax IDs, because they keep hoping there will be an amnesty, and when/if that happens, they will need to document their time living in the U.S. The best way of documenting it is to show proof that they've paid taxes.

Yes, and they use other people's SS#'s, and then those people that the SS# belongs to get contacted by the IRS because they aren't "disclosing additonal income". It takes YEARS for those people to get it cleared up, and YEARS for the IRS to accept that these people are actually not lying about this income. Not to mention, these people have to PROVE they aren't the ones earning this money.
*I* have had an illegal immigrant use my SS# to get a driver's license. It took a lot to actually PROVE that yes, it is MY social security number, not his. They wouldn't give me my license when I was 16 until my parent's proved that I was issued the SS#... it was a long process. I really am sorry for these people that come here to help their families, and I understand they don't want to take the time to go through the process of coming here illegally. It IS understandable, however it is NOT excusable. It is a crime, and the crimes continue as they live and work here. Illegal is illegal, no way around it, and they have no right to be here, nor do they have any right to use SS#'s to live here and work here. I have friends and family that are here LEGALLY... if they can do it, others can, and should, too.

Like I said, I get that it's wrong. I just don't understand why no one else (other than Madeline Rain) understands that these people are not here undocumented because they want to be. YES, there are people that are here with documents but not everyone has the luxury of being able to do that. Coming to this country is is not only ridiculously time consuming but it also costs money. Most of those people don't have that money. And they sure as hell don't have the time to sit around waiting while their families starve to death.

It just seems like so many people that have responded can't seem to possibly look at it from the perspective from a poor Mexican who can't even give their family food to eat. What if that were you, what if you weren't privileged enough to be born in a place where you can take care of yourself? Wouldn't you want your fellow human beings to have some sort of fucking compassion and heart for you?

Anyway, whatevs.

You said exactly what I wanted to say. I feel the same way about the problem we have with asylum seekers in the UK. Of course immigration needs to be controlled, and of course people should only be living here long term if they have been given the legal right to do so. And of course it's wrong and unfair of them to use other's identities to access social security, and those people should be caught and probably deported. However, many go to America and do the jobs which others won't do, and get paid very little for it. But still to them it is better than the life they had back home.

I think it's heartless to just dismiss them all, when many are just desperate to find a safe place for them and their families to live, and I think some accountance should be made for that, and this is what the UK is doing with asylum seekers, assessing each one on an individual basis before deciding if a person can stay or should go back.

And I do think the process of immigration application in the US is absolutely insane. I do not think the fact that some abuse the system justifies punishing partners who just want to move to the country to be with the person they love (I know two people who have been in this position), by making it so dificult for them. For the record, the rest of the world does NOT think America is as amazing as Americans think. Here in the UK we have better health care provision, better working conditions, more pay, more annual leave entitlement, better high school education, and cheaper university education, than America has. I don't know any British person who would choose to live in America, except for reasons of work or marriage. So I don't see why the few who have good legitimate reasons for moving there, and who try to do it legally, should suffer.

Yeah, but America has better TV ;)

Well, this is true. Although you do keep stealing our shows (American Idol and Dancing with the Stars for example started here, and you will soon be getting American X Factor), and anyway, we get most of your shows here.

No, no, no. We are talking about two different things here.

An Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN) is a number issued by the IRS to people who do not have, and are not eligible to obtain a Social Security Number. Most undocumented immigrants in NYC have one of these because they keep hoping for an amnesty that would grant everyone legal status, and if that time comes, they need to prove that they've been continuously living in the U.S., as well as paying their taxes.

What you're talking about is identity theft and that should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. If someone, illegal or not, got a hold of my SSN and used it to get a job or a line of credit, I would want that person to rot in jail, and if they're from another country, to get deported to a life of poverty and misery. You don't mess with my identity.

Wow. I love how much heart we all have for our fellow humans. I guess I just can't believe that no one cares that while people are waiting to gain legal entrance into this country their families are starving...and dying. Just let 'em know they've gotta 'wait their turn' and if their families die in the process, oh fucking well right!?

What would you do if your child was starving? Would you be chill with waiting 8+ months just so you could get your money 'legally?' Or would you just get your ass to a better life and start feeding your kid?

Whatever.

Oh, damnit. I almost forgot half of what I wanted to say.

I don't understand why we're acting like all undocumented immigrants want nothing but to leech of the American people. Last I checked Arizona USED to be Mexico... before we stormed in and LIED to take all of their land. Yea, let's not look back into history to what we DID to those people.

Also look at when this 'crackdown' happened. Most of this "let's kick out all the illegals" talk happened when we started to shut down all the poultry farms and stuff like that, when we found all the undocumented immigrants using fake SSN's. Look at the conditions these undocumented immigrants worked in. Shit hours, horrible labor intensive jobs. They lived with 15 other people in a one bedroom apartment. These people were SO desperate to survive that they worked in these HORRID conditions (conditions that NONE of us would EVER work in) just to make ends meet. They are CLEARLY living the high life leeching off the government!

And lastly, how many Americans pay taxes... HONESTLY? Cos I'm sure NO American has EVER lied on their tax return to get a bigger refund...

Heeey, I've never lied on my tax returns! :-P

Just wanted to say I agree with you. Completely.

In the interest of full disclosure, I am an immigrant. I have done everything right and even with that, it took me almost 10 years of living in the U.S. (legally) to obtain citizenship.

I, however, am not one of those people who demands immigration reform and amnesty for undocumented immigrants. If we granted amnesty for everyone, then most of those undocumented people with no skills would just do the American thing and stop working for meager wages because, d'uh, "I'm an American and I deserve good wages! If I can't get a good paying job I'm just going to wait for uncle Sam to pay me some welfare money". I know we have a few of those here in bloop. ;)

The issue I'm most upset about with this Arizona law is how it legitimizes racial profiling. Because you know the cops aren't going to stop the white family shopping at the mall, they're going to go for the Hispanic looking family at walmart, without regard for whether or not there's probable cause to stop them. Where do we draw the line? Are citizens going to start carrying their passport everywhere? Maybe we should institute a National ID and require everyone to carry it; that way if you're stopped by the police you can show proof of legal status. This law, the way it's written, only lends itself to abuse by the authorities.

Thank you, thank you, thank you. Someone else that sees the 'big picture.'

The big picture is that Mexico is a richer land per-capita than the US is. That the only holding the people down, so they "cant feed their children" is political corruptness. If the millions of people would stop running away from their problems and stand and fight. and make their own country a better place to live. It would be a win win for both sides of the fence.

But they don't want to stand and fight for the country they live in and were born in. Instead they want to make a criminal decision to come here ILLEGALLY and break this countries laws. They can disrespect the laws of our country like that but complain about their country?

yeah, it's ridiculously sad. This running away from the root problem, has created a much larger problem.

The people that come here illegally because they really want change. It's such a selfish act. They leave behind their family, fellow citizens, to rot in corruption, because they only care about themselves. Change for them, and f*ck everyone else. Well I say no, f u, stop running away, and stand and fight for not just yourself in selfish acts, but fight for future generations in the country you live in, join the human race that is more human than human

See and here all we do is fight for our beliefs, fight for our freedoms, fight for good government, fight for change. People cannot honestly expect anything to ever change if they aren't willing to take a stand and fight for it to change. Fleeing is not the best option, because you are just leaving the next generation to deal with the same stuff. Crap, if all the illegals that had fled here had stood up as a group they could have had a HUGE influence! I totally agree with you!

Yeah, it's the wrong way to go about it.

When my mom moved to Canada from the U.S. (she married a Canadian), there was no where near the same kind of hassle to become a citizen. She never did become a citizen (was 6 mos away from it though), but she was able to get a work visa and financial aid for starting her own business. And me and my sister weren't even trying to become citizens, but it was no problem for us to go to school. We got temporary student visas over and over. :P (For us to become citizens, it would have required my dad's permission, which he wasn't giving.) Do you know how different the systems are?

I wonder, though, if they are really going to enforce this, and how? I mean, Texas could very well pass a law like this, but they probably wouldn't have cops going around stopping every hispanic person they saw... that would be insane.