The troops have no choice. They have to go to war. It's not fair to not support them because THIS was not and is not their decision. If there is anyone to blame, blame the Bush administration. I will support the troops until the day the war ends. End of story. :)

-Lacy @ TDW?!

breaking the law because someone told you to, is the lamest excuse on earth

stop supporting the murder of children, because someone said it's okay to break the law

the only true people that support the troops, are those that support the laws that keep them safe.

you cant have your cake and eat it to

You started this thread obviously because you wanted to see shit fly. Well here it is, and NOT EVERYONE IS GOING TO AGREE with you.

Last time I knew, when you sign up for the military, you HAVE to follow the rules of your govt/military? If they say, go to war, you have to go to war. I support the military because in the end if we didn't have military WHO WOULD PROTECT US?

they are not protecting us!!!!

get that through your head!!!

we have our military stretch out all over the world, fighting illegal wars. not to mention WE'RE BROKE!
god forbid anyone actually does attack us, no one is here to protect us

if you disagree wit me on this issue. you disagree with the constitution of the United States, and you disagree with International Law.

big mistake ;D

i love how you're telling me how to feel/think. last time i checked i'm my own person, thanks. SO THAT BEING SAID, I GUESS I DISAGREE WITH THE CONSTITUTION AND INTERNATIONAL LAW. OH NOEZ. THE FUCKING WORLD IS ENDING. give me a break. lol 8-)

sweet

go and kill some people

lets have total anarchy

give me the break!

Well, in the troops' defense, they go to jail if they disobey orders.

not actually. they have a chance to go in front of a military judge, and present a reason as to why they refused an order.

some have won there case, based on the war being an illegal war:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ehren_Watada

Thank you! I said the same exact thing. Anyone who doesn't support troops are sad and pathetic. I have nothing but respect for those men and women.

anyone that supports breaking the constitutional law of this land, along with international law, is sad and pathetic. and I cannot respect them in anyway

Blame Bush? What happened to Obama pulling them out? Let's read about his recent doings...

"A few weeks ago, Obama announced that an additional 17,000 U.S. troops would be sent to Afghanistan. Tomorrow, he plans to spell out their mission. 4,000 additional troops will be tasked with training Afghan soldiers and the national police; the administration hopes to have more than 130,000 soldiers and 82,000 police officers trained by 2011." (source: The Atlantic, Obama's Afghan Policy.

Isn't that what Obama supporters (and/or Bush haters) disliked so much about America? that we trained them so many years ago? And he's sending more troops to Afghan? How long until you think he sends them to Iraq, or Iran?

One article says that "Afghanistan could prove even more intractable for Obama than Iraq proved to be for Bush." (source: Washington Post, Iraq and Obama's War ).

He's doing the same thing as Bush, just in a different area. But Americans are so focused on Iraq that they don't realize it. And Obama's done so well at bringing up Iraq again and again, by visiting there and talking about it constantly, that he has diverted attention from Afghanistan.

Also, Obama is still considering (as far as I know it's only considering, and not concrete) leaving 50, 000 troops in Iraq "serving in a training or advisory role to the Iraqi military." (source: CNN, Democrats voice concerns...)

Obama said he would pull them out of IRAQ not Afganistan where our ORIGINAL target is/was. He said we didnt need to be in Iraq anymore, we need to be focusing on Osama.

yes, we're never leaving Iraq, we're increasing the genocide in Afghanistan, and we still bomb Pakistan at whim.

nothings "changed" just another musical chairs game took pace, all the same people still run this country. they just changed positions/seats

which is why we must have national initiatives, as a means to uphold the constitution, stop illegal warmongering imperialism, etc etc

we can sit here all day and bitch about look what this politician has done, he mislead everyone, no kidding, they always do.

time for real "change": vote.org

Troops have the choice to sign up in the first place. They aren't drafted, or at least haven't been for this war. No one forces anyone to join the military. It is a choice that people make of their own accord, knowing full well war is a possibility. And anyone who signed up since the war started, knows full well they will probably end up over there at one point.

I know they have a choice to sign up, but what about the troops that were in the military BEFORE this war started? THEY don't have a choice. Why anyone would want to join the military right now is beyond me, but it happens. And without a doubt, I will support my brother-in-law and the other troops out there, but I don't support this war.

There is always a possibility of war. Before it occurs or what. This isn't the first war. Anyone who signs up, war or not, knows that there is a possibility of it at some point.

I don't agree with the war, I don't support it at all. I don't care for it, I don't care to educate myself about it, I won't even pretend to understand it. I support friends I know over there, or who have been over there. I hope they return safely, and they all have. Australians have done pretty well and we have very low fatalities over there. But that is something they knew could happen, irrespective of when they signed up. Don't make out like they didn't know it could happen. People make the choice to sign up knowing full well they could go to war if a war breaks out. Plain and simple. Don't get me wrong - I'd willingly have joined the military years ago. But I would accept that it was my choice to sign up, knowing full well what could happen. Those people who signed up before this war, they DID have a choice.

Anyways, I think you're missing the point of my original reply to Tommy. I was saying that the troops do NOT have a choice once they're in the military to NOT go to war unless you wanna go AWOL and go to jail for it and face lots of consquences.

And the point I am making is that, they put THEMSELVES in that position of NOT having a choice, when they WILLINGLY signed up in the first place.

I support the troops as a whole. I rest easier in my bed at night knowing that there are people brave (or stupid) enough to fight for me and my country. But I will say that every single asshole from my secondary school class joined the army and are now even bigger assholes for it!

I'm not saying that everyone who is a troop is a complete prick, just that most people I know who are complete pricks seem to be in the army, and are now jumped-up-mysoginist-squaddies who failed school and are continuing to fail life by being utter brutes, yo!

as other pointed out, they really don't have a choice. should they go AWOL instead when they are given deployment orders to iraq? what would be your SOLUTION to these men and women who are have signed this contract and are told they have to go?

EXACTLY.

You always have a choice. ALWAYS!
Just because someone else tells you to break the law, it's not an excuse!

Solution for the troops that refuse to break international law, and the constitution

Solution for wars in general:
1. Follow the constitution
2. Follow international law (including rules of engagement)

Solution for the economy:
1. Fair Trade

Solution for the failed Republic of representative government:
1. A true democracy with National Initiatives, that are constitutional, and hold accountable those that break the constitution.

did you really link me to google? LOL.

i checked out a few of those sites. are those really solutions? becoming a deserter, asking for refugee status in canada, going to jail?

honestly, your thoughts are all good and dandy in theory, i suppose, but you would think differently if this affected you in real life.

anyways, done with this thread. i'm going to spend some quality time with my husband. (who, by the way, i will always support.)

getting all of the troops to obey internal law, and the constitution. is a great idea, according to, our founding fathers. Imagine if all of them agreed to only follow the constitution and international law. They wouldn't be sent to jail, how could they? the constitution, for all practical purposes, is the only thing that matters. We must obey the rules, very simple. They were put in place for a reason, like not locking up heroes (deserters) for abiding to teh constitution.

The wars effect all of us "in real life"

I know people that died on 9/11, I have family fighting in Iraq. My cousin was shot.
My opinion that abiding to the constitution is a must has always remained the same.
you can kill my whole family, and dog. I will only seek justice. not collective punishment for your whole country and your neighbors