We had quite a few American students at college who were 18 but at the level of the average 16 year old in UK which is why they couldn't progress onto uni.

I've always heard the opposite, that the first year of university in the US is equivalent to the second year of A-levels in the UK.

I never claimed the NHS was free. I was stating that the burden of cost falls on others, and thus for some it is free and for others it is significantly not. If you don't believe socialism causes laziness, then I suggest you try testing the hypothetical waters some time. People will abuse any system which does not require personal sacrifices or costs involved.

Nationalizing health care doesn't make costs magically disappear. A procedure that costs $10,000 will always cost $10,000, and the nationalized program merely changes who pays, namely the general public instead of the individual. As for your "best education systems in the world" statement, that is completely subjective. The individual determines the quality of the education received, and not the institution. I'd like to see statistics on the number of Americans moving to the UK to take advantage of your education system, versus the number of students that come to America to take advantage of the universities.

So, you aren't claiming the NHS is free, then you say 'People will abuse any system which does not require personal sacrifices or costs involved." Make up your mind.

Do you have health insurance? If you do then everyday you are paying for other peoples care and when you receive medical care other people are paying for you to be treated. So if you do have medical insurance you better cancel it and pay true cost if you don't want other people paying for your health care.

Well, maybe with a nationalised health system, America can bring itself up from its poor position in the WHO 'league table'.

You can't put a price on health.

One can, however, argue against a system which already fails from becoming larger. Making compulsory government programs and mandating public funding of such programs does not fix the problem. Obama wants to spend trillions of dollars on a program with no accountability. Nationalizing healthcare is not the solution. It fails for the same reason company pension plans do.

But under that argument NOTHING should be free... so do you believe that you should have to pay afterwards should you need help from the police, or the fire services?

But if health care is not free... how can everyone have access to it? So if healthcare is not free, but yet is a right, then the rights of poor people who can't afford it are surely being violated?

I agree that there's too much bureaucracy, and labour have made some mistakes, but lets not forget that labour put far more money into the NHS than the Tories did. :P And it's Labour who've And at least they're united in their support for it. :P

I can't BELIEVE that having a baby costs that much money in the US! $10,000? thats insane! Why on EARTH does it cost that much? Does nobody think that maybe if healthcare wasn't so expensive/ was government run, there would be less abortions, because people wouldn't be worried about not being able to pay the hospital fees associated with giving birth?

Yeah, it's pretty high. It's often even higher if you have a Cesearean section, epidurals, or emergency treatment. A friend of mine had an emergency c-section that actually cost her $43,000. Her insurance only covered half.

Your theory is an interesting one, though.

Is there a low rate of elective c-sections in the US?

Surprisingly, we have one of the highest rates in the developed world (can't remember the statistic exactly, but 1 in every 4 deliveries here is via Cesearean whether elective or not)! Some of these women must have ridiculously good private insurance.

That is very high, 20% of births are by c-section in the UK, so actually, the difference isn't that much.

I'm sure most women don't know what their private insurance covers and are probably quite shocked/upset when they get their final bills for their c-sections. I would feel safe saying about 75-80% of patients have no clue what kinnd of insurance benefits they are even paying for.

Surely that is through their own ignorance, you should be researching that before you take any any insurance plan whether it be health insurance, house insurance, car insurance etc.

I dunno; we have pet insurance and our dog recently had to have radiotherapy. We were really unsure over how much the insurance company would cover, and believe me; my parents do their research. I think a lot of stuff is decided on a case-by-case basis. Thankfully it was covered though, and we worked out that because it cost so much, we have actually broke even with how much we've paid out over the years!

$10,000 is quite "cheap"! Including epidural (although only the charges for the medication and supplies, not the anesthesiologist charges) a normal vaginal delivery at the hospital I work for costs around $13,500. I agree, it's extremely expensive! And I think UNNECESSARILY expensive! The way hospitals jack up prices is absurd, although it's because so far they're getting away with it.

Personally, I have free health care because I am Alaskan Native. IHS health care is very similar to Canada's health care, at least that is what I have heard. Some times it's a pain in the butt, but I am very grateful that I have health care at all. If I am sick on a Monday I will wait until Tuesday, if I can, to go to the doctor because Mondays are horrible days to go to the clinic. I have free medical and dental and they also pay for hospital visits. I just want to know, if the US government can already provide free health care to Native Americans and Alaskan Native tribes, why can't they do the same for every other US citizen? I know people who need to have their wisdom teeth taken out, and have for years, but they suffer because they cannot afford health care and dentists will not see them without it. It's really sad that they cannot even go for a routine procedure and have to go through so much pain because of it.

in this bill, you can no longer go to a specialist. for example, my grandmother went to our family doctor and he told her that she needed to go to a dermatologist to get the cancer on her face removed. with this bill she wouldn't be able to go to the dermatologist.

*if you're on medicare, that is

The whole point of this bill is to virtually eradicate medicare!

obama doesn't care about old people! XD

That's complete nonsense. You're not another one who's been brainwashed by the media are you? All this stuff about Obama supposedly trying to kill off over 65s is completely untrue... the media (and the insurance companies) has just twisted things to scare people and influence their opinion. I can't believe some people think everything they hear on the news is true. :P

lol it's called a joke, sweetheart. i was making a reference to when kanye west said "george bush doesn't care about black people". chillllll ouuuuuuuuut XD