HA! I beg to differ. ;) I am American. I might not have been born and raised here, but I am a naturalized citizen. In any case, I know so many multicultural Americans who speak several languages and travel extensively, that I find your impression of Americans to be reflective of only one segment of the population.

The reason I'm getting into this topic (and hijacking the pet peeves thread) is because I dislike stereotypes of all kinds. America is an ethnically and culturally diverse country, despite what those Bible-hugging, gun-toting, rednecks might want to make you believe.

I meant it's where you were raised which makes the difference. And as you said you were not raised in America.

I'm not one for stereotypes either. However, I have not once said that all Americans are like that... JUST that it is FAR more common to be like that if you were raised in America (particularly the American public school system) than if you were raised in the UK. And I stand by that. Because it's true (I've experienced it for myself when I've been in America, I see it on Bloop, and most of all, I'm told it's true, by AMERICANS themselves, quite regularly!). It's not generalising, because just as SOME Americans know about other countries, SOME Brits do not (usually the ones who didn't pay attention in school!), and I would not claim otherwise. Of course America is a diverse country, just as the UK is. And in neither country is everyone the same as everyone else.

All I am saying is that here MOST people will have left Europe, or at the very list, wish to do so at some point... and the same can not be said for MOST Americans (some, yes, most, no). That is not a stereotype, it is just looking at the majority.

Uhm... Maybe it's because of where I live, but here people are more likely to know about other countries (for example, Puerto Rico and the Dominican Republic) than about their own country of origin. Of course, that's not right either. Then again, I've said it many times, New York is not representative of America.
:p

No, this is true! New Yorkers are definitely a breed of their own!

How can it not be generalizing?

I still honestly believe that the fact that the U.S is a huge country is a significant fact in this issue. And I can compare it to Brazil and see how it's the case there too.

I know loads of americans who love to travel. Yes, some did not grow up in the US, but a few of them actually did. The country has very different types of people all over it. Excluding people from the big cities and talking about people who live in the middle of nowhere seems a bit extreme.

Where did I exclude people from big cities? I'm sure that that attitude extends to Americans living in cities too.

And it's not generalising because I'm not saying ALL Americans are like that. I'm just saying that the 'everything I could need is right here' attitude is more common amongst Americans than amongst Europeans.
And I've already agreed that Americans are less likely to travel because of the size of the country but that doesn't explain why so many Americans have so little DESIRE to travel.

Lots of Brits can't afford to travel either, but most at least WANT to see other countries, experience other cultures etc. In my experience Americans are less likely to feel this way.

And don't forget it was an American who brought this point up to start with!

"Good luck finding any American who could point to Wales on a map!"
^ It sounds like you're saying you don't believe there is one American who can do it. Which in my mind sounds like generalizing. Also when you say: "In my experience Americans are less likely to feel this way." I feel like you base a lot on your experience and seem to generalize from that.

I think desire sometimes comes along with the issue of the size of the country. If you know that it takes quite a bit to travel outside of your country then maybe you don't desire it as much because you don't think it's as possible. Although, honestly... I don't know many americans who don't have the desire to travel. Actually, I think I know more americans who have the desire to travel than those who don't. But what I know doesn't mean much in the big scheme of things. I think we can't always say things are a certain way based on our own experiences. And I can easily say I know some Brazilians who don't seem to have the desire to travel outside of Brazil, or outside of South America.

I get a little lost in the the order of the forum considering I'm only just reading it after people have already gone back and forth, so I'm not sure which american brought this point up, but again... one american doesn't determine them all. And throughout this discussion I see a few saying they want to travel... so I don't see how the fact that an american brought this up seems to really matter. Also, the american bloopers don't necessarily represent the entire american population anyway.

The thing is, when an American says they can find anything they need in the U.S., they're saying it because it's true. The United States is a vast, multicultural country, and for the most part, you can find everything you could possibly want right here. Museums? check. Mountains? check. Beaches? you get the idea.

Having said that, the diversity of this country is enormous, due to the influx of immigrants we get on a regular basis. And to make a statement based on personal experiences, plus the base demographic of a website (bloop), seems short-sighted. It would be like me saying that Brits are dirty and have bad teeth because most of the ones I've encountered met this criteria. I'm sure plenty of Brits have perfectly nice teeth and like to brush them as much as I do; there's just that particular stereotype that applies to them.

Finally, saying that you want to travel and actually doing it are completely different things. If you really want to travel you will go through any lenghts to get that bug out of your system, believe me. When I was 18 and broke I decided that I wanted to travel and I did it on very little money. I didn't care if I had to sleep in train stations in order to do it. I am fortunate enough that I don't need to do that anymore, but my point is, when you actually want to see the world, you do whatever it takes to see it.

For the very most part on what you just said here, I agree with you.

I look in peoples mouths every day at work, and a lot of Brits DO have bad teeth actually! So it's probably not an unfair generalisation. And I'm not offended by your observation. Nor do I think that you would assume ALL Brits were like that, just as I don't assume that ALL Americans have no desire to travel. It is simply an observation that the attitude is more common than it is here. And the fact that Americans are less likely to travel is a FACT. The statistics show it (so if you're correct and those who want to travel will find a way, it would also then follow that less Americans want to travel). The number of Americans who own a passport is still VERY low. It's harder to measure attitude towards travelling though.

It's not the same any way because dirtiness and the quality of ones teeth can ONLY be assessed by seeing someone for yourself, so I'm guessing your impression is based on only a small number of people. An attitude (such as towards travel) can be observed by meeting people but also by listening to others experiences (and I've heard many many people say this about Americans, it's NOT just MY experience. And that's many people who are NOT on Bloop, although it is particularly obvious on Bloop).

Oh yes, THAT comment about Wales was generalising. But I've already admitted that. And for what it's worth I probably shouldn't have said it. But saying that the 'everything we could want is right here' attitude is more common amongst Americans than amongst Europeans is not generalising. It is just an observation.

I actually just found a really good Blog post on this whole issue (written by an American no less)...

Nomadic Matt's Travel Site - Why Americans STILL Don’t Travel Overseas

Last year, I wrote an article about why Americans don’t travel overseas. It still ranks as my most popular post, sparking both agreement and controversy. In an 800 word post that could take up a novel, I tried to explain why Americans don’t travel overseas. Many people agreed with me, many people didn’t. No matter what we all agreed that Americans should travel more.

The current percentage of Americans that own a passport is now around 21% up from 15% years ago. Unfortunately, this common statistic that is hard to back up as the state department doesn’t really keep records. Yet the number of Americans who traveled overseas has decreased overall since 2006. (Source: OTTI) So why did we all go get passports? Because we are now required to have passports for travel to Canada, Mexico, and the Caribbean. In fact, Mexico travel is up while European travel is down. Americans didn’t find a new sense of adventure. They still not traveling. And the reasons remain the same.

Are Geography and Cost really relevant?
Many people countered my argument by saying that geography and cost were big factors but if cost and geography played a role in determining where you traveled, no one would ever travel. Yet New Zealand is the middle of nowhere and how many more Kiwis do you meet traveling than Americans? How many more Aussies? Poverty is poverty. No matter where you are in the world, if you don’t have money, you don’t travel. But is it that much more expensive to fly from America? Nope! A flight from LAX to BKK is $787 dollars. A flight from London to BKK is $654. A flight from Sydney to BKK is $794. Americans bear no extra cost burden relative to the rest of the world.

And the geography argument? Well, I’ll get to that one in a second.

Fear, Awareness, and Priorities
The reasons why Americans don’t travel overseas can be mostly explained by one thing: cultural ignorance. Many people in the previous post assumed I meant Americans were stupid. I wasn’t implying that. Americans are ignorant in that they don’t know about the world. We all have seen the Jay walking clips and the skits on TV where Americans can’t name foreign leaders or countries. Moreover, as education budgets continue to get slashed, humanity courses are usually the first to go meaning people learn very little world history. In some states, the whole world has to be explained in one year. Additionally, surveys show that news agencies devoted only 10.3% to foreign overage in 2008 (source) while oddly, 13% went to some polygamy case in Texas. Americans are simply not told about the world or clamoring to know about it.

And why should they be? Politicians and media paint the world as a scary place, filled with crime, hate, terrorists. Bill O’Reilly, a man who clearly has never been to Amsterdam, has called that city a cesspool. (Twice!) My mother constantly tells me when I go anywhere in the world to “be careful” as if the world is a big scary place. Many of my old co-workers do the same. We are constantly told that there is great anti-Americanism in the world- wherever you go, people will dislike you. (A fallacy that is rarely disproven in media). Moreover, America’s hegemony since WW2 has ensured that we have been the dominant force in the world. Despite the rise of China, Brazil, and India, our politicians tell us everything in America is the best (yet #38 in health care). Countries will always do what we want. America is the leader. We are the city upon a hill. An when you are the best, why go to “godforsaken” countries where they hate you for being American and might rob you?

And this is why geography does play a role in why Americans don’t travel. It’s not that America’s size makes travel prohibitive, its size is important because people feel there is no reason to leave. We don’t need to travel to “big scary places” when we have deserts, tropical islands, mountains, endless summer, wilderness, snow, and more. Every landscape can be found within America’s large borders. You can have everything you want here. A friend from Iowa once joined me in Thailand. When she told her co-workers about it, their response was “Thailand? Where is that? Why would you go there? If you want a beach, go to Florida.”

Lastly, travel is often viewed as a sign of weakness. Americans typically get about two weeks of travel per year. Overseas, the average is about 4-5 weeks, not including sick leave. So time is a major factor. It makes more sense to fly to Australia for 3 weeks than it does for 1. But there is more too it than that. Travel is not a priority here. In the trade off between time and money, Americans choose work and money. While I was home, there was a story on TV how there is a growing trend to take only ONE week of vacation. Two consecutive weeks is considered too many. It’s a sign that your work isn’t important, you aren’t a team player, or you are lazy. Workers are made to feel guilty about leaving. And, in this tough job market, no one wants to seem less than 110% committed.

Why the majority of Americans don’t travel abroad is a complex issue that is more cultural than anything else. Geography and cost are minor issues when compared with the importance we give work and isolation. As I said last year, and have expanded upon here, Americans don’t travel because we are simply uninformed about the world and told that we don’t need to be- it’s scary out there, go to Florida with your one week instead.

Some people argue that it’s because America is “far” from the rest of the world as if there is an insurmountable distance to go to get places. However, New Zealand is further geographically yet they are encouraged to go out and explore the world. It’s further for them to get anywhere in the world than it is for Americans. In the age of the internet, Twitter, You Tube, and airplanes, it is easy to go places. Distance is no excuse.

When I wrote what you're replying to you hadn't admitted to the Wales comment yet, that's the only reason why I mentioned it.

It might be an observation, but I think it could also be seen as generalizing too. That blog post is very interesting and does contain some facts but I don't think it proves anything. More facts could be brought in. For example, I think the comparison with cost of plane tickets isn't enough. To do that you need to bring everything else into consideration. How much they're earning, and how much they're paying in all sorts of other life necessities and non-necessities. And again, the size of the country comes into play there too... because some smaller countries need to travel to get anything different. Some countries don't have good beaches, or mountains for skiing, or whatever. Just because some are travelling for culture doesn't mean that that's their main reason for travelling away. Americans might be able to find that "different" thing in another state more likely than most countries.

I'm not saying that the blogger (or you) isn't right, I just don't think it's proof.

You're expecting proof??

What proof have you that how I have described things is incorrect?

I don't think this is something that you can prove or disprove (unless you did a survey of a large number of Americans and asked them how they feel about travelling and why). But a lot of people have made similar observations to those I have made... And it is because this has been the experience of so many that there are generalisations made.

Generalisation is wrong, but such generalisations are based on something.

I'm not expecting proof. And I don't have any proof that how you have described things is incorrent, I said that up there. It's not something you can prove as right or wrong. I never tried to prove anything and I've been trying to point out that there is no right or wrong answer. All I said was that it is a generalization. Just as a lot of people have made similar observations to those you made a lot of other people have made similar observations to the counter point of what you've said.

See, you just said what I've been trying to say all along... that it is a generalization. I never said that generalizing was wrong or not based on any sort of facts, I was just pointing out that it IS a generalization!

So this whole time all you have been arguing about is the definition of a generalisation?!

I think we're done then.

Not exactly, that's what caught my attention. But I was obviously also dissucing the issue at hand. But okay, done.

One interesting point in that article is the work issue. I know just from Michael Moore's Sicko alone and just general knowledge that Americans don't have leave the way people in other countries do. That has a huge impact on travel-it's way easier to go somewhere in the country on a budget and with limited time than to go to another country (where of course, you'd spend more time as you'd be unfamiliar with it and need more time to explore.)

In that case, it's quicker and simpler to just go within the country. I know for myself, there are a lot of places I would like to see, but I do feel it's easier to plan on going back to California or NYC than to Europe-cost wise and time wise.

Chris's lab rarely gives them time off because as graduate students, they are expected to work year round. The only time the others take time off is when their kids are sick, or they return to China to see family. There are a lot of cultural differences going on with how they work in the lab (Chris is the only American in the lab full time-his mentor and everyone else is Chinese) and they expect him to be the same.

Whenever he does take some time (mostly just at Thanksgiving/ Christmas), most of it is spend it seeing family in Florida or Ohio.

Also, I have to say, the government sucks when it comes to passports. :-P We applied in plenty of time, it still took months to receive ours, and it still wasn't in time for our cruise. We had to take birth certificates instead (this was when that was still allowed for sea travel, it's stricter now).

You bring up an interesting point about vacation time and using that time to go see family. One thing that seems to be true about Americans (generalizing) is that they tend to "go away" for university, a lot of times to another state. While this obviously also happens in other countries I really wonder just how often compared to Americans. For example, I can say that it's normal in Brazil for you to attend university in the same city you grew up in and still live with your parents while attending university.

It's the norm to go to uni close to where you live or in the same city here too. Most of the uni students still live with their parents.

It's definitely more of the norm to live on your own or in dorms on campus during college. A lot of people live in dorms and go home to their parents during summers. This also has a lot to do with where you live and the culture of the university, too though-it's a big deal to be involved in life on campus at some places, so students want to live right there rather than at home.

My university was small and in a rural areas on its own, and some people loved being involved in school activities so they lived there all four years.

Then there's schools like my husband's university now-which is in a busy downtown area, without a true 'campus' where people can easily gather-so it's much more of a commuter's university where many drive there and live somewhere else.

I moved out of my parents' house at 18, and never went back. I lived in the dorm my first year of school, then into my first apartment when I was 19.

I think it's more common because a lot of people choose not to work in the same place where they grew up-going to university somewhere else allows you to look for something new.

I also meant to say that my university is about two hours away from my hometown/my parents. There is a good university right where I was from, but I refused to even apply there-I did not want to stay.
I considered that distance I ended up with to be perfect when I applied - it was close enough to go home when I wanted, but far enough away that I gained some independence. :)

I actually think it's a wonderful experience for people to be able to get... moving away to university, making new friends, living on campus, taking care of themselves, learning to cook etc etc. I was like you, I moved into halls (what you would call a dorm) at 18 and then moved into a flat with friends when I was 19. And it taught me a lot! And was a lot of fun too. Definitely the best years of my life.

In the UK I think it depends where you grew up... because I grew up in a big city (and the type of city where everyone who lives there thinks it's the best city in the country!) most people I went to school with were quite happy to stay there for university. I was one of only a few from my high school who went away to university. But I think in other towns and cities in the UK kids are more likely to go away for uni. And in my class at university almost everyone was had moved away from home to go there.

But how can you say it's 'normal' for Brazilians to attend university in the same city as you... just because the people you knew growing up did that? You do realise you're doing EXACTLY what I did further up the thread by making such a generalisation?

The difference is I never said I wasn't generalizing?

And I wasn't saying they attend university in the same city as me, I said in the same city as they grew up.

I will say, I do use a lot of money and time to go visit my family, I live 18 hours away from any of them, and we try to make the trip once a year. Its a very expensive trip, but its also very worth it.